Saving your first kiss?

[Sheenar]

I too am saving my first kiss for my wedding day. I also don't want to participate in the "dating" thing as the world defines it (casual -just because I don't have anything else to do). I want to "court". I would like a guy to ask my uncle to take me out (and also ask him if he can marry me) --(for those that don't know, my dad isn't around.) I don't want to go out/be in a relationship with someone I couldn't see myself marrying.
Also, kissing can easily evolve into other things that people shouldn't be doing before they're married. It's one of those snowball effects. So I'd rather not play around in that area.

My friend is getting married this month and she and her fiance have decided to save their first kiss for the wedding. He said he didn't want to take from her something that wasn't his to take (which is true, a man and woman don't belong to each other until they are married) in case something happened to him. He didn't want to take something from her future husband.

Now where can I find a guy with that view?!?

Saving my first kiss isn't really that hard (right now, anyway) because there isn't anyone to kiss...

I've never been on a date and I've never kissed a guy. Just waiting for the right one. (He has to have the guts to ask me out--if a guy can't do that, how will he stand for what he believes?)

Well, those are my views on the whole relationship/kissing thing. What do you guys think?

[Sakura15]

I think it's awesome and very inspiring to see how many people are saving their first kiss, that's not to demote people who aren't in anyway.

I would like to atleast save my first kiss till I'm engaged, I want to be sure I'm not just giving it away to anyone.

[Nate]

What do you guys think?

Well, you asked. :p

I also don't want to participate in the "dating" thing as the world defines it (casual -just because I don't have anything else to do). I want to "court".

I don't think most people on CAA would. I would date...well, if I would find a woman willing to go out with me. XD Not because I'm bored or anything, but because I would seriously be looking for a woman to share my life with.

"Courting" is a buzzword that is ridiculous, merely meant to make Christians say "LOOK THAT PERSON DATES BECAUSE HE/SHE ISN'T A STRONG CHRISTIAN AND DATING IS EVIL SO I COURT." "Courting" is just Christian dating and there's no reason to invent a word for it, or even worse, to imply that it's somehow different from dating.

I realize people will say "But dating in the secular world--" I would HOPE the fact that this is a Christian board, comprised almost entirely of Christian members (with a few rare exceptions) would mean when someone says "dating" they're not talking in a secular sense.

I would like a guy to ask my uncle to take me out (and also ask him if he can marry me) --(for those that don't know, my dad isn't around.)

This is honestly the only point you make that I disagree with. Not saying you're wrong, but I don't like this idea. The reason is...my parents.

My mom's dad LOATHED AND DESPISED my father. My dad had long hair, a beard, and listened to rock music, so my mom's dad thought he was a lazy good for nothing hippie bum. He thought my father was irresponsible and immature, and would not make a good husband for his daughter.

My dad was one of the most caring, most responsible men I have ever known, and did so much for my mother, it's unbelievable. If my mom had done this whole "If my parents don't like him he's not for me!" thing, she would have missed out on marrying this wonderful man.

By the way, after two or three years, my mom's dad eventually warmed up to my father, and apologized for saying he was wrong for his daughter. Food for thought.

I don't want to go out/be in a relationship with someone I couldn't see myself marrying.

Same. Though it's hard to tell until you actually date the person sometimes. And never date someone you don't know well. Always only date people that have been good friends for a while.

Also, kissing can easily evolve into other things that people shouldn't be doing before they're married. It's one of those snowball effects. So I'd rather not play around in that area.

I half agree with this, and half disagree. I half agree because mainly, well, you're right about the snowball thing...to an extent. What I mean is, if you're alone in the house with the other person and start kissing, it can spiral out of control, quickly. But a quick kiss outside the movie theater isn't going to go very far since it's a public place.

Now where can I find a guy with that view?!?

I'm sure they exist somewhere. They must be in hiding. XP

(He has to have the guts to ask me out--if a guy can't do that, how will he stand for what he believes?)

COMPLETELY disagree with this. I am very strong and concrete in my faith. However, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with my social skills. I have poor social skills, low self-esteem, and am very shy and introverted. I would pretty much NEVER have the guts to ask a girl out. However, I have angrily rebuked people who challenged my faith, and implying I am not a Christian or the like is a sure ticket to me ignoring you always. I'm speaking in a general sense, not directly at you. XD;; You never implied that.

What I'm saying is social skills have nothing to do with one's personal moral, theological, political, or philosophical convictions. And it seems silly to me to try and equate the two.

So you wanted what I thought, there you have it, for better or for worse. :p

[Mave]

"Courting" is a buzzword that is ridiculous, merely meant to make Christians say "LOOK THAT PERSON DATES BECAUSE HE/SHE ISN'T A STRONG CHRISTIAN AND DATING IS EVIL SO I COURT." "Courting" is just Christian dating and there's no reason to invent a word for it, or even worse, to imply that it's somehow different from dating.

I would HOPE the fact that this is a Christian board, comprised almost entirely of Christian members (with a few rare exceptions) would mean when someone says "dating" they're not talking in a secular sense.

Let's keep hoping together: I think this discussion is only as good as the definitions hold. I generally view those two terms, 'courting' and 'dating' quite differently. The differences in my mind is based on how serious the couple is in forming a man-woman relationship in accordance to God's law - but this is where things get fuzzy because we humans love to interpret God's law based on our own desires.

I did date my ex for a few years. I will also say that at that time, we didn't think much about our futures together or even consider each other as potential mates.

The next round, I'm looking for a husband, not a boyfriend. Does this make courting different from dating? Not necessarily, in some ppl. But to me, it does.

Nothing really Christian about it. I do agree that some Christians have adopted the term courting and twisted it to become a nice alternate term, which isn't much different from secular dating. That is disappointing.

About the topic where the guy should have the guts to ask you out, isn't really questioning his faith or morality. It may have something to do with his ability to lead or having the courage to initiate something. A friend of mine has this opinion "If the guy cannot make the decision and make the first big move towards the woman he would like to marry, how can he lead her when it comes to making big important decisions in his future family?"

Of course, that's merely his opinion and way of rationalizing why the guy should always make the first move. Pls feel free to disagree.

Sheenar, your views are cool by me. I'll just say that waiting for your future mate and trusting God in this area of your life, will be extremely challenging. That will be something you need to pray about and keep in conversation with God so that your values don't waver when under pressure.

[K. Ayato]

My question is why do we resort to the labels of "courting" and "dating" in the first place? They're just labels after all. You can have a system that involves a bit of one and a little more of the other. That's fine. Just don't stick a freakin' label on it.

[Sheenar]

I just want to date/court with the intention of marriage. I don't want to be in a relationship that has no potential of going anywhere.

I wasn't saying a guy isn't a strong Christian if he doesn't have the guts to ask me out, but I would say that I would question his ability to be a strong leader for his family. The husband is the head of the family, and as such needs to have initiative to make decisions (even difficult ones) for the good of his family.

As for a guy asking my uncle for his blessing, I feel that my uncle is a great judge of character (even though I'm not sure if he's a Christian). I wouldn't take his opinion as anything absolute, I would just like my aunt and uncle's blessing on my future marriage. I just want to take their opinions into the overall consideration/thinning out process of a potential husband.

Not a problem, Nate. Thanks for telling me your opinion. That's what I wanted!

[White_Rose]

I've always called what I do courting. I've never thought of it as a label or in anyway offencive or condeming.

I don't want to make anyone feel like they aren't as devot a Christian, or something like that. But where I live and with the people I know the only people I know who share my beliefs on marriage -stuff to do with waiting, no kissing, and the parents involvement- always called it courting too.

I don't really see how dating and courting could be the same... Or why it's bad to have names for these things, feel free to disagree.
And I don't by any means want to make anyone feel bad.. That's not my intention.

[Sakaki Onsei]

Courting and dating do have different terms, however we have to look at the root of each word and use the etymology from there to determine what the sifferences actually are.

Courtship (courting) was primarily family-oriented, family involved, and very structured in it's determination. It was old-fashioned and was considered to be in the realm of "finding one's life-mate, partner, or soulmate."

Dating was much more casual, less structured, and more loose in it's determination. Dating was what would be considered a less traditional model, encouraging the "hooking up" of people by chance encounter and more random assignings.

Therefore, if you are courting someone, you generally have the idea that you are going to eventually marry the person. If you are dating, it would be that you are not going to marry, but that you're just finding out more about the person on your own.

Simplistic, but it may work.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

No, the differences are trivial nowadays. You have people sleeping together who are courting, and people who live very chaste romantic lives and are dating. Whatever you call it, do it with Jesus at the centre and set boundaries. No sex before marriage people.
Thank you. That is all.

[Nate]

Courting and dating do have different terms, however we have to look at the root of each word and use the etymology from there to determine what the sifferences actually are.

If we're looking at roots, that's not going to do much.

"Courtship" has the root word "cort" from Old French, which basically meant a courtyard. "Date" has the root word "data" from Latin, which means "given" or "written."

Now get ready, because I'm about to go into a HUGE rant over how stupid this is, and how Christians have completely and totally decided to IGNORE history and turn it into their own little perfect fantasy world.

Courtship (courting) was primarily family-oriented, family involved, and very structured in it's determination. It was old-fashioned and was considered to be in the realm of "finding one's life-mate, partner, or soulmate."

"Courtship," first of all, is the term used in the animal kingdom for how males will perform dances, give trinkets, and make calls in order to mate with a female. I think we as humans are a BIT more advanced than that, or at least, we should be as Christians.

Second. COURTSHIP DID NOT EXIST. Show me an example of courtship in history. It might be a bit difficult, maybe impossible to find one. Know why? WOMEN IN HISTORY HAVE BEEN SECOND CLASS CITIZENS. America really is the first country in the history of the world to attempt to treat women as equals with men. What does this mean? First, there was no "courtship." Getting married was a simple task. You basically had two methods.

First was arranged marriage. This was done by the parents WITHOUT consent of the children. Don't like who you're going to marry? Tough crap, you're marrying him/her. Marriage was commonly used to gain social status and wealth. Oh yeah, real romantic, real Christian.

The second was this. You were walking down the street and see an attractive woman. You go to her father and say, "Excuse me sir. I couldn't help but notice your attractive daughter. I would like her hand in marriage. In exchange I shall give you a ship/ten goats/half of my estate." It was a BUSINESS DEAL. If the father approved, boom, she was his.

Remember that even in the Old Testament under the Law, women were given respect and were to be treated kindly, but they were not equal citizens. In fact, wanna know what the punishment was for a man who raped an unmarried woman in the Old Testament? Let's find out!

If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. - Deuteronomy 22:28-29

Boy, the Bible sure is a great place to get advice on how to find a wife, huh? Go out and rape a virgin and she's yours! No jail time, no stoning, just marriage! And a payment of fifty shekels of silver.

That should be pretty convincing evidence that women were not treated equally to men, and that "courting" as people love to claim it does not exist in the Bible.

Simplistic, but it may work.

No, it doesn't work. Because to a Christian "dating" is to find a partner suitable for marriage. I would HOPE, as y'know, Christians that we would always do everything we do to the glory of God and not to our own freaking selfish desires. I would HOPE most Christians (I say most, because hey, we're all sinful, and we all stumble every once in a while, part of being human) wouldn't say, "I'm not interested in this girl but I'll go out with her anyway because I'm bored and hey, maybe I'll get a little bit of pleasure out of it before I leave her."

To even IMPLY (and yes, you ARE implying it, I don't give a crap WHAT you say) that Christians who use the term "dating" (because that's what it freaking IS) aren't serious and are just screwing around not looking for a wife is very, VERY offensive.

I don't really see how dating and courting could be the same... Or why it's bad to have names for these things, feel free to disagree.

Saying you don't see how dating and courting could be the same is like saying you don't see how a cougar, a puma, and a mountain lion could be the same. Cougar, puma, and mountain lion are all names for the same animal. Likewise, courting and dating are both names for the same process. So maybe the secular world doesn't take dating as seriously as Christians. Well, so what? Does the fact that they don't take it as seriously as us really mean we have to invent a new word for it? They don't take sex as seriously as Christians either, does that mean we should invent a new word for sex too? They also don't take marriage as seriously either, we should invent a new word for marriage too I guess.

I don't CARE what the secular world has done to drag the word "dating" through the mud, it doesn't matter. They've certainly done plenty to drag the word "marriage" through the mud but I don't see Christians inventing new words for marriage and saying "marriage is only for secular people and it means you can get divorced whenever you want and you don't even have to love the person but for CHRISTIANS [insert new word for marriage here] is more serious because divorce is wrong and you have to be united in faith!"

Do you see what I'm getting at? The secular world has done much to harm marriage, and think it's a joke in some ways, and that it's not a big deal because hey, divorce. But Christians shouldn't view marriage like that. And we should strive to uphold Godly marriages. And we don't need to create a new word for Christian marriage, because no matter what the secular world does, marriage is what it is, and we should treat it with respect and put God at the center of it.

It's the same with dating. To a Christian, there is no difference between courting and dating. You COULD call it courting, I guess, but why? I could call my dog a giraffe, but what would be the point? She's still a dog no matter what I call her. So it's silly to call it by a different name, it just doesn't serve any real purpose...EXCEPT...

To make yourself look better. "Look at me, I court, that's better than dating, it's not as sinful." Get off your freaking high horse (I'm not talking to you here, White Rose, so please don't take it that way XD;; ). The only purpose to calling dating courting is to create a divide in people's minds. "I court, you date. Dating isn't focused on marriage, you're just looking for sinful pleasure. I'm looking for marriage so therefore I'm a better Christian than you." Bull. I've only dated one girl in my life and I had every intention of marrying her. It didn't work out in the end, but hey, not everyone succeeds their first time trying, right? How many times did Moses have to go back to the Pharaoh to convince him to let the Hebrew people go?

But in the end what does this have to do with saving your first kiss for your wedding day? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

[K. Ayato]

Good points all around, Nate. Call it dating, courting, or whatever term you decide to use. Just don't shove it down our throats and say you're better than the other guy/girl.

And for those of you who have decided to save your first kiss until you stand before the altar with your spouse on your wedding day, I admire your decision. Just be prepared to face a lot of struggles just to keep that promise you made.

[Kenshin17]

My two cents, and this is entirely my stance. Just so people know, when it comes to kissing I do not believe that it is wrong to kiss before marriage, but my though is: Why make that first kiss at the alter less?

anyway, as far as the morality of kissing, if you can kiss a girl/guy and it doesn't go further then that, then its your choice.

Me personally here is how I feel.

Kissing can lead to other things and other things can lead to the bedroom and thats for marriage only. So for me its safer to wait on that too. If you wait till your married you can kiss your girl/guy and all restraints are off at that point so its ok.

So for me, I am waiting. And yes I know people will come at you. I have had people come at me for not going much farther then kissing.

The classic: "How will you know if she is a good kisser?" Question has arisen, as well as others.

My though is this, if she isn't that good a kisser, I get to train her to be the perfect kisser for me There ya go, deal don't get much better then that, and the same for her.

So yes, my first kiss is saved for the alter, but no I do not condemn those who do kiss before marriage, as long as its just a kiss

Though I do pose the question: How much better will that kiss at the alter be if you have no other kiss to compare it to?

Note: do not feel condemned by that question, just a question to consider

[Shao_Zeng]

Ignore this post.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Dang it... I keep forgetting to log my brother out XD

---

Who cares about the origins of courtship and what not? Still no less of a good idea... XD

I'll save my first kiss I think. I like the idea. Besides, what if you kiss him and he turns out to be the wrong guy anyways?

And you don't need to date, in the sense that you go and be alone with a person, to get to know them.

[Nate]

And you don't need to date, in the sense that you go and be alone with a person, to get to know them.

That's completely untrue. Let me give you an example.

When I'm with a group of people that I know, I joke around a lot and act goofy. When I'm alone, I'm quiet and reserved. So let's say I'm never alone with the woman I date, I'm always in social settings. Well, guess what? We get married, we're alone, I am quiet and reserved and don't say much. What is she going to think? "He doesn't care about me, he doesn't love me."

Which is a lie. The fact is I'm just a bit different on my own. If we were never alone, how would she know this? She wouldn't.

I tend to swear a lot from being in the Navy. I usually don't swear in the company of others to avoid offending them. So if I was never alone with a girl, she would never hear me use that kind of language. Then we get married, we're alone, I'm doing something and I yell out "Effing stupid effing piece of [crap!]" Maybe she's really taken aback by this. Wouldn't it be nice to know that kind of stuff beforehand?

And let's not forget that there are some sick, twisted individuals in this world, who are very good at playing a role, at being smooth and silver-tongued when need be. They pretend to be a good, nice, wonderful guy...in public. Then when alone, he changes moods. The mask comes off. If you're never alone with a person, how will you know if his personality is just an act, or the real deal?

Look, I'm not saying "You should be in a house all by yourselves in your bedroom so you can know what they're like." That would be a bit too much pressure for temptation. So you go and be alone in public, so to speak. Go to a park, sit on a bench. Go to Taco Bell, sit in a corner booth away from everyone else. Go to the movies, grab a seat in the back row. Be alone, without really being alone if you see what I mean.

You can't know someone if you're never alone with them. The trick, as I said, is to be alone in situations where you can't be tempted to do anything you might regret. Because you need to know the other person on a one-on-one basis to see if they are who they say they are and aren't wearing a mask in company, and to see if their personality changes when others aren't around.

Besides, what if you kiss him and he turns out to be the wrong guy anyways?

Then you kissed someone who was the wrong guy? So what? I've already had my first kiss, and the woman I had it with was not the woman for me. I don't regret it. Nothing precious was "stolen" from me. Actually, having my first kiss was a great thing. It helped me realize, you know, not every woman in the world thinks I'm complete scum. There is at least one woman who is willing to share physical intimacy with me. It helped my self-esteem. Maybe only a tiny bit, but it still made me feel better about myself. I'm not on good terms with her anymore, but I still don't regret having my first kiss with her. I'll always treasure it.

Kissing isn't sex. If you kiss someone who isn't your spouse, it isn't a sin. It's not worth freaking out about or getting depressed or angry about.

Again it's all about how YOU personally feel. If you want to save your kiss for your wedding day, that's awesome. I hope you succeed! But if you don't succeed, you've done nothing wrong. You haven't let down anyone, you haven't sinned, and it's not the end of the world. It's the same with anything. Work is our worship to the Lord; we praise Him in our jobs, what we do every day. But if I go in to work and maybe I'm a little tired, a bit emotionally drained, and I don't do a very good job, I haven't offended God in any way. I haven't sinned, and I don't need to spaz out about it. We're human. Part of being human is knowing we have limits, and knowing that we can't plan everything. Sometimes our plans don't work how we think they will work.

Now listen, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money." Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Instead, you ought to say, "If it is the Lord's will, we will live and do this or that." As it is, you boast and brag. All such boasting is evil. - James 4:13-16

I'm not saying that planning to save your first kiss for your wedding day is evil or bragging. By no means. What I'm saying is that it's very clear that sometimes, God changes our plans. We should have goals, strive for them, but ultimately it's in His hands whether they will be successful or not. And you know, sometimes God has plans for us, that maybe are even the exact OPPOSITE of what we want. Maybe God wants you to get in a horrible relationship that's completely wrong for you. He's done crazier. It's all up to Him, He does things beyond our understanding...look at Job, who was righteous and a man of God, and how God allowed his family to be killed, his property to be destroyed, his wife to leave him, and his health to fail him. "That's crazy! Why would God let that happen to Job when he did nothing wrong?" Because it was God's will. And God's will is not our will, and He is certainly willing to allow bad things to happen to us for His purposes, and His purposes alone.

[Sakaki Onsei]

-snip-

Your opinion is noted. But you seemed to miss one very important time period when there was a seeming distinction with the word "courtship".

Does one happen to forget the times of Victorian England, and the influences therein? Much of my statement prior revolved around this specific time period. How do I know this? Diary of my grandparents, along with some university research done on this issue from where I live.

As much as quoting the Bible and talking about the Bible in regards to the history is concerned, it is...for the most part...irrelevant to the situation as a whole, specifically when the context is put forth in the time frame as set above.

Secondly, your projection upon me (in regards to the simple statement that dating is casual and less structured) of offense is nothing more than an elite way of saying "You're wrong, and I stick my middle finger up at you". I seemed to have hit a nerve.

The fact of the matter is that cultural anthropologists, of whom you meet a ton of them at the university level and in my field of study, have to discuss issues with at times, understand that the modern concept of dating is more casual and less structured and generally is found to be more associated with the current culture of "hooking up" in today's day in age.

People can interchange the words, run over the words with a car, whatnot. There is, however, a difference between the terms that is seen in cultural analysis, that you seem to have thrown out the window in order to get up on your pulpit and beat your chest.

Frankly, Nate, while I understand your obsession with trying to discuss this issue with people, I happen to think that maybe, just maybe, you need to simmer down a bit and stop judging others just because of what YOU might feel offended about.

That is my two cents, and it ain't refundable.

[Nate]

Does one happen to forget the times of Victorian England, and the influences therein? Much of my statement prior revolved around this specific time period. How do I know this? Diary of my grandparents, along with some university research done on this issue from where I live.

I don't know your grandparents. Therefore I cannot speak on a personal level, nor pass judgments about your statements (because that's information only you know). However, the Victorian era in England ended before the 20th century, meaning your grandparents would have had to been alive in the mid-1800s to be able to "court" in the Victorian era...meaning (since you are 27, same as me) that your parents would have been approximately 60 years old when you were born to them, for your grandparents to be of dating age during the Victorian era.

However, I also realize you may have meant "great-grandparents" and you just traditionally don't mention the "great." I do know people who have this quirk, so if that holds true for you, my apologies, I mean no offense.

As much as quoting the Bible and talking about the Bible in regards to the history is concerned, it is...for the most part...irrelevant to the situation as a whole, specifically when the context is put forth in the time frame as set above.

The problem is those people who say "courting" is better than dating say courting is more Biblical. Thus, the Bible in regards to history IS extremely relevant to the situation, and since the Bible has nothing to say about courting (and for the most part treats women as second class citizens, as I noted), their argument falls apart due to lack of evidence.

Further, comparing these times to the Victorian era is a bit faulty, as women vastly outnumbered men in that time period, prostitution was at an unbelievable high, and women were basically treated as "baby factories." Remember women had basically zero rights in that time period, and there was a lot of unhealthy sexual repression, so trying to gain any useful dating information from this time period is at best useless because their culture is so far removed from our own.

Secondly, your projection upon me (in regards to the simple statement that dating is casual and less structured) of offense is nothing more than an elite way of saying "You're wrong, and I stick my middle finger up at you". I seemed to have hit a nerve.

Gee, you think? Yes, you are wrong. You're wrong because the word dating does not imply that, any more than marriage implies a sense of convenience...or to quote a comedian I once heard say, "Marriage is basically just a man surrendering. He's tired of playing the game of catch and gives up to a sure thing." Obviously we Christians don't view marriage this way...so why should we view dating the same way the world does? We SHOULDN'T. And we don't need to invent a word for it to show the difference, any more than we need to invent a new word for marriage to show it to be different from secular marriage, or inventing a new word for sex to show that we value it more highly than the secular world.

If a Christian was free to come on a board and say, "I'm dating a girl I know" without anyone saying "OH MY GOSH DATING IS SINFUL I'M COURTING BECAUSE I'M A BETTER CHRISTIAN THAN YOU" then I wouldn't really care. But do you know how many people I've talked to outside of CAA that get upset whenever someone here criticizes them for saying that they're dating someone? Using the word "courting" instead of dating merely shows arrogance and pride, and is harmful and hurtful to other Christians. You may say "Oh it's just a word it can't hurt." That shows how little you know. Instead of making other Christians feel like crap and purposely causing them pain (because that's totally what Jesus would want us to do, right?) how about you just call it whatever the heck you want to call it and not make judgment calls on someone who wants to call it something else, huh? And yes, saying "Dating is looser and not as serious" is a judgment call whether you want to admit it or not.

The fact of the matter is that cultural anthropologists, of whom you meet a ton of them at the university level and in my field of study, have to discuss issues with at times, understand that the modern concept of dating is more casual and less structured and generally is found to be more associated with the current culture of "hooking up" in today's day in age.

Right, because cultural anthropologists totally determine the meaning of words in the English language.

People can interchange the words, run over the words with a car, whatnot. There is, however, a difference between the terms that is seen in cultural analysis, that you seem to have thrown out the window in order to get up on your pulpit and beat your chest.

I don't give a flying crap about cultural analysis. Do you think "cultural analysis" sees any difference between Christianity and any other religion. No, they're all just religions to them. Well, Christianity ISN'T "just a religion." So why should I as a Christian take anything a cultural analyst says as freaking fact? If they want to think there's a difference in the terms, fine, whatever. But there isn't, or at the very least, as I've been saying, to a Christian there shouldn't be a difference between courting and dating because to a Christian they're the same. Maybe in the secular world there's a difference but so what? I'm not secular, and I could care less what the secular world says, because they think sex before marriage is totally cool and that porn is a-okay. So if you really want to define terms based on what THEY think, well, go ahead, but you might have to go around inventing new words for things that secular people think differently than us about.

Also analysts are largely morons anyway. They get paid to make guesses, and then if they're wrong they just say, "Well, analysis is tricky!" In real work when you do things wrong you suck at your job]Frankly, Nate, while I understand your obsession with trying to discuss this issue with people, I happen to think that maybe, just maybe, you need to simmer down a bit and stop judging others just because of what YOU might feel offended about.[/QUOTE]
I'm not judging others, I'm sick and tired of others judging ME and MY FRIENDS about the use of a freaking stupid word, a word that doesn't even need to exist because it's extraneous, pointless, and dividing.

Like I said, if good Christian people were able to say "dating" without everyone else going "SINFUL" or "YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE PREMARITAL SEX" and banging the courting drum, I wouldn't get upset over this. But the fact is "courting" is used to look down on other Christians, and that is something I will not stand for.

[Kenshin17]

Dang it... I keep forgetting to log my brother out XD

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Who cares about the origins of courtship and what not? Still no less of a good idea... XD

I'll save my first kiss I think. I like the idea. Besides, what if you kiss him and he turns out to be the wrong guy anyways?

And you don't need to date, in the sense that you go and be alone with a person, to get to know them.

Yeah a girl who agrees with me, not many do these days, and if your one of them, then I include you in this statement.

Courtship pwns dating

I just wanted to show support, I have read a few lines from other posts...and I know better then to get involved in this, its just going to get nasty.

[Artist4Jesus89]

Well i really hold this topic close to my heart.
My Outreach Pastor's daughter made the same commitment, she is dating my Senior Pastor's son and they have been together for a year, they have not kissed once and they said that they are waiting to kiss until their wedding.
When i first entered the thought of doing that into my brain i was going to do it, well i really didnt end up keeping my end of the bargin (i had made really virtually no commitment to do it in the first place the only person that i hadnt kept it to was to myself) and i honestly must say i look up to those who can do that, but i personally would never be able to go back and change the decision that i made, i am however, waiting and staying pure until my wedding night, that is a commitment i made to God, myself, and my family, and i intend on keeping it.
I give props to anyone who has ever done that (saved their first kiss) because its difficult!
Anyways God bless yall!

[K. Ayato]

Nate and Sakaki, can we take the debate elsewhere? You're both putting in good points, but CAA is not the place for debate. Thanks. Carry on.

[Nate]

Don't worry, I had no intention of continuing. I'm bored with the topic now. If everyone here wants to continue hurting fellow Christians, that's their business, and they'll just have to answer to God for it.

[Sakaki Onsei]

Not really interested in continuing it either, I just get exceptionally ill when people get too oversensitive about things. Call it flashbacks to my own insecurities many years ago.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Hmm... Bible doesn't say a thing about courting or dating (Doesn't mean it didn't happen either). A lotta times guys just went out and picked a wife or they were arranged. Doesn't mean a woman couldn't get out of it. If she hated the guy, her father could be nice and let it not happen.

But the Bible talks about purity and waiting for the marriage bed. "Courting" as we have to day, is just a good way to help keep people pure and not make a mistake and be stuck with a person. After all, sex can happen without love and you can think you're in love when it's really just feelings and hormones.

I really don't give a hang about what you call it. Just don't be alone anywhere if you think you might even like the other person

[Novi]

Here's a question for all of us. How do you keep to your commitment to wait when challenges come and you think waiting isn't worth it?

Just ignore how I feel at that moment and use common sense

[PleaseDrinkMilk]

Wow. This is pretty amazing. I can't imagine not-kissing, but I severely admire the willpower behind the notion. It's inspiring.

[minakichan]

Saving a first kiss... You know what? I think that if I ever do get into a "relationship," dating or marriage, I see no point in kissing. Closing your eyes and pressing your lips again another person's lips and sharing saliva (or, if you're adventuresome, tongue-wrestling)? I mean, if you think about it, that's just weird and completely random; I've never really understand what is so intimate about that. I share saliva with my best friends drinking through the same straw. Isn't hugging more intimate and warm anyway (and generally less unhygienic)?

I've never kissed anyone before, so I don't know if it's actually really pleasurable, but it sure doesn't seem like that much fun. (I would rather use my mouth to eat cheesecake though; THAT is pleasurable.) Is it just a matter of being really close to another person? Because society could easily have developed some equally strange symbol of affection like, I dunno, touching noses or something =D

[bakura_fan]

my first real kisses were with my husband (before getting married.). Any kiss I had prior I look back on, and none were really meaningful.

@minakichan a kiss is a very wonderful thing. ^_^ I dunno, when I kiss my hubby it just makes us feel closer. I feel vulnerable yet safe at the same time.

[Shao Feng-Li]

I've never kissed anyone before either Mina and they make kissing look kinda gross on TV and in movies... XD

[minakichan]

Haha, I know! The way they kiss on TV kind of looks like a child using his mouth to eat a cake in front of him, when he has no utensils and doesn't want to use his hands! XD

Actually, cake tastes pretty good when you eat it that way.

@bakura_fan: haha, I'll take your word for it. I'm sure your kisses are not like unmannered cake-eating.

[Shao Feng-Li]

I'll bet when there's someone there you love, you'll actually wanna kiss him, lol