For You Commodore owners...(shooraijin?) :2)

[DanekJovax]

Here's an article that may prick your interest:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/18/1857204

Enjoy!

[shooraijin]

Adam has done some good stuff with Contiki, and it has a very portable kernel (as evidenced by the number of ports available).

[DanekJovax]

I just can't see myself dusting off my C64 to try out web browsing or LAN playing... though it would elicit some nostaligia just getting it out...

Heh... I'll think about it. :2)

[Straylight]

I think it's quite clever they made something like that, although I expect the web browsing capabilities would be limited a lot..

[shooraijin]

> although I expect the web browsing capabilities would be limited a lot..

Well ... {shameless plug}
http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/hl/

A new version will shortly be on its way to the beta testers, and probably
released in a week or two.

[DanekJovax]

So, shooraijin, you seem pretty knowledgeable about this project, as well as its programmer. Have you had a hand in this as well?

[TheMelodyMaker]

Interesting... I knew the C-64 had an optional dial-up modem, but I didn't think the processor was fast enough to handle broadband. (Or does the CPU have anything to do with it?)

[DanekJovax]

Well, somewhere was mentioned something about superCPU... dunno what that is right off (though I'm sure it's just a google away) but I'd think the controller for the Ethernet port(s) may be controlled by a separate DSP that can match the MHz frequencies of the 10/100BaseT standards and keep the humble 65xx processor free to do its own work (I think...). If I'm wrong, shooraijin can correct me with a red squeeky mallet. ;2)

[shooraijin]

W/r/t broadband, my 64 is broadband enabled, more or less. It's connected to the apartment 100Mbps backbone using a Lantronix UDS-10 Ethernet->serial gateway, which can export data in SLIP, PPP, "naked datagrams" or most usefully to older systems, a clever mode called "modem mode" where instead of ATDT and a telephone number, you enter ATDT and a network address:

ATDT127.0.0.1/23

Naturally, this is cheating, but it works great! HyperLink flies under this configuration (the connection between the UDS-10 and the 128 is 57.6kbps, but it's like a null modem and has all the speed advantages of same, not a "modem 56K" with all the crufty compression, mod/demod overhead, and line noise).

There are a few projects like Adam's TFE which use various bits of custom DSP logic and glue. The stock 64 needs a LOT of buffering to pull this off, hence the custom stuff (I doubt a relatively stupid NIC like a RealTek 8139 chipset, which needs lots of CPU attention and handholding [that's why they're cheap, tho'!], could be driven well by a stock 64).

Virtually all of these setups require some sort of accelerated serial connection, since the userport can only be used for bitbanging at speeds of at most around 2400bps or so (the 128, since it has 2MHz available, can bitbang out at around 9600, though there are some non-general-purpose algorithms that can achieve higher bursts). The standard for many years was the venerable 6551 ACIA (the Commodore 64 and 128 Kernals even emulate this chip in software to drive the user ports in a 'standard' manner), which is basically a 1-byte UART, and is widely available in aftermarket versions and a CMOS version manufactured by Rockwell, which still makes R65C02 CPUs as modem chipsets. CMD manufactured a venerable cartridge called the SwiftLink that provided 38.4kps through the expansion port and a standard COM DE-9 port this way, and the later Turbo232 expanded this to 57.6kps, and even higher speeds are possible with crystal modifications. I use a Turbo232 with a CMD EX2+1 cartridge port expander to achieve the fast link between the UDS-10 Ethernet gateway and the 128, which is otherwise stock and unmodified. The Turbo232 is still available from CMD's licensee, Maurice Randall, at http://www.cmdrkey.com/ for around $40. Best money I ever spent.

The CMD SuperCPU is essentially another computer, in a box that connects to the expansion port and uses the 64's 6510 (or the 128's 8502) as I/O for the remainder of the system. It is a 16-bit computer based on the WD 65816 (same chip used in the Apple IIgs and the Super NES), and runs at 20MHz with a maximum addressing space of 16MB RAM (with standard 72-pin SIMMs -- easy to expand). Clever optimization allows the VIC-II video system to continue to operate out of main memory, with the 65816 caching RAM in its main space, and only having to slow to 1MHz to write out RAM to the 16K portion of RAM the VIC-II is currently working on. The SuperCPU's primary drawback is expense, which is why I don't own one. Maurice also sells new items of these.

The SCPU itself has attracted a lot of attention from GEOS owners, if you remember the GEOS GUI system. Maurice created a GEOS upgrade called Wheels which basically uses a heavily modified GEOS kernel in a new chassis for a redefined, GEOS-like but custom GUI. The flagship app for Wheels is The Wave, which is a true web browser as well (TCP/IP over the modem -- I think both SLIP and PPP are available), but it requires a SuperCPU with a minimum of 1MB RAM installed.

While HyperLink doesn't require this, it cheats by requiring a Unix shell. (I cannot tell a lie.) A Perl proxy on the other end does the heavy lifting of network access and image and HTML translation, and transmits a proprietary page description language called LinkScript back to the 64 client, which then displays it.

On the other hand, because of the Unix nature, I have access to lots of Unix tools for filters; so, if I may brag, my browser supports images and colour, which none of the others do. Mine also supports many trivial forms; Contiki does also; The Wave doesn't at all.

However, the Wave supports frames and tables in a sane manner; I use a hack, and I don't know how Contiki does it.

Contiki also has some usability problems in that it doesn't cache the page in memory, and requires a lot of refetching, which slows it down. None of the browsers cache, except for mine, which can cache to 128 VDC RAM, an REU or geoRAM. (another shameless plug)

Nevertheless, Contiki is still a new release, and Adam has done excellent things with it. I expect that as he slims down the kernel, he will be able to dramatically improve the usability of the browser, as well as other Internet enabled apps on the system. He has certainly gone the furthest of all of us in this regard. I was lucky to see an early release of it when he was still working on the kernel and had only the conio (non-graphic) shell operating. Even at that stage, a full onboard HTML parser, TCP/IP stack (admittedly no PPP yet), and multiple applications in only 64K is a major achievement; a GUI, more so. I expect our friendly rivalry will only end up with many more good things and options for connectivity for us Commodore hackers.

[DanekJovax]

Wow! You sure brought me down memory lane (pun not intended, of course) mentioning all those components! I haven't honestly touched my C64 in almost a decade, and now with all this stuff I've been reading, I'm seriously considering on getting it out of storage and dusting the thing off and seeing what I can still chug out of it.

But, alas, with a child on the way and home remodeling as well as job searching on the side along with family matters on the wings, I wonder if I'll ever be able to have time to tinker again. *sigh*

Then again, all this just takes away from anime time... boo hoo! ;2P