With our recent issue which occurred in the Jesus Statue thread, Mech and I decided to collaborate on setting up an open discussion regarding numerous issues which we both think will be beneficial and edifying for the members here as well as CAA as a whole. We both wish to keep the discussion here civilized and mature. Flaming will not be tolerated.
Essentially, the immediate question at hand is if the "Jesus statue destroyed by lightning" thread warranted a move to the goof off section. Numerous perspectives arose which eventually revealed numerous issues or confusion regarding the current policy. Goldie and Mech both seemed to point a key issue here, which is how "goof-off material" and "general material" are to be defined as.
From my perspective (and I believe the participating mods here agree, but I will not speak for them) is that the continuous postings of image macros (There are twenty-one different Jesus-statue macros posted which seemed to have taken over the previous group discussion) warranted itself as probably a thread-derailment but even more so "goof-off material".
So this is the first question which I think is important to as:
1. Where is the fine line between a goof-off thread and a general thread? What are the set definitions for both of them? Are there even set definitions for them? And are they fair?
For this specific thread in question.
2. Why does this thread deserve to be in the general section?
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What sparked me were some of the posts in the particular thread. Now I had numerous issues with them, which I would like to expound on these issues as they can and ought to be applied to CAA as a whole. I wish to use that thread because it is a good case example of the topic at hand. Please note that these are coming from my perspective. And I welcome correction.
It seemed to me that the Jesus statue thread, because of it's level of humor, was -- in a way -- "too good" to be in the goof off thread. Like it would have lost it's level of awesomeness or something. I also had issue with what I perceived to be this attitude of "our thread is better than your thread". Because who is to say that our macro-filled fun is higher quality than other forum members enjoying copy-pasting chatbot logs to each other?
Hence, a third question:
3. Does the quality of a thread determine whether or not it ought to be moved to goof-off or remain in general?
__________
My second issue with this was the attitude towards the goof-off section of CAA. It seems like there is a level of stigma towards it. Perhaps this is because of the amount of (what some members of CAA would see. This is of course relative to each individual.) useless or unnecessary thread which would overtake a thread which is more likable by a different group of individuals. So a fourth question:
4. Does the goof-off section deserve the stigma that it gets? Or is this simply due to a consensus of people having a similar perspective? Is it fair to qualify one thread as better than another because of time/effort/lolz invested? Should forum behaviors be dictated by this stigma?
From my perspective, I want to say that it seems like this is a case where "The People" (CAA Members) set up the "System" (The stigma against goof-off. Seeing it as a graveyard, etc) and then become bound by the system. We created this stigma of the goof-off thread because of our own perceptions of "good thread" vs "bad thread". Combine this with other people with a similar belief, then the stigma is born. But I would argue that this is unnecessary.
__________
There is also the question as to if the thread could have gotten back to it's "srs general" roots. This if course is the hardest to predict, because well... we'd have to look in the future. And we can't do that.
So fifth question:
5. Does the potentiality of a thread becoming "srs bsnz-general stuff" again after a wave of "lolz" mean it ought to stay in the general (or wherever besides goof off) section? Or should it only be moved back in the general section if the thread takes a serious turn after it is moved in the goof off?
__________
I think these are important questions which we all need to address and then come to a (hopefully) majority consensus to. Hopefully a clearer understanding of policies can happen. That or perhaps an alteration in CAA policies? That would require discoursing with the mods/admins. Mech had an interesting proposal on this which I am sure he will further expound on.
An open discussion on what constitutes "goof-off material" from "general material".
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Mr. SmartyPants - Posts: 12541
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:00 am
1. Where is the fine line between a goof-off thread and a general thread? What are the set definitions for both of them? Are there even set definitions for them? And are they fair?
I think there are not well defined definitions between a goof off and a general thread at all. We assume that 'serious topics' go in general, but reguardless of the OP or the original content, if too much silly stuff happens in the thread it's relegated to goof off. As far as I know, Goof Off was originally created to contain spam posting and keep threads like 'the longest thread ever' from camping out in places like general and preventing legitimate, non spam, threads from being on top of their respective forums.
The forum is percieved by many to be a place for humor or humorous threads, but there's an issue with that. Goof off is a dumping ground to protect the rest of the forum from spamming, not a dedicated humor forum. The fact that posts don't count in the forum (though post count rarely matters anymore) provides a stated barrier to the legitimacy of any statement made in that forum, and make it seem like many things, including the forum rules in some people's minds, don't matter there. This results in threads with more hostility or inappropriate comments than would be permitted elsewhere on the forum simply because people can hide behind doing it 'for the lulz'.
Goof off has no other solid definition that I've ever seen, other than 'that one place where random stuff goes', and most, if not all of the threads in Goof Off that aren't forum games could probably be seated in other sections of the forum fairly easily. If you have a question, link me a thread and I'll see if I can figure out a place to suggest for it.
General is less ambiguous, but as I stated above, keeping a thread in general has become a bit of a challange. General covers news, questions about life, and other topics that are somewhat random, but serious in nature, things like cooking and cars. That's pretty well handled unless things get 'too silly' by one person or another's standards, at which point the thread, good or bad originally is placed into the Goof Off thread.
2. Why does this thread deserve to be in the general section?
In the case of the thread in question, I think that the content as a news post, though humorous, places it firmly in the general section of the forum. Even the image edits, though really silly, were still on the topic of the statue, much as an editorial cartoon is still on target while being in some cases very silly.
Pointing out that the statue was silly through some creative photoshop isn't much different than everyone posting 'this statue looks like it's (fill in the blank), which I'm pretty sure, since it would all be text discussion, wouldn't be taken as off topic, or as 'too lulzy for general'. Only when it became an image, instead of a text comment, did it catch attention for being too far off base.
Dropping the thread in goof off, where posts don't count due to it being the area for spam type posting, degrades the entire discussion because in goof off, reading the entire thread is usually uncommon, and in many cases impossible for the spam related threads. This aspect of the nature of the Goof Off sub-forum results in the core of threads, the actual content, being ignored. This works fine for the forum games... (who really needs to read the entirety of the 'Wish Ruining Thread' before starting posting?) but when a thread that is suddenly deemed 'too silly for general' gets thrown into the Goof Off, the entirety of the original content that occurs before whatever caused the switch is usually lost or ignored for the short duration it survives before being sunk by the myriad game threads, regardless of content or value.
The content of the thread was still valid and the news article was still funny if not a little stale, but the thread was by no means off topic or 'too silly to recover' at the point when it was relegated to Goof Off, therefore I think it should have stayed in General. That's my personal opinion, as asked for in the questions.
3. Does the quality of a thread determine whether or not it ought to be moved to goof-off or remain in general?
I think that the goof off section causes people to question the quality of the threads in it by the way it is formatted and titled. The lack of post counting, relaxation of the spamming rules and ambiguous name and definition peg it as a place for threads that are pariah from the regular forum. I know for a fact that some of the regular users (including me) only look at the Goof Off forum when a thread we were following elsewhere is moved there.
I personally do this because there is little to no value to me in the threads in the Goof Off section, though I know that, every once in a while I might be missing a good thread.
So to get back to the question of quality, I think that almost no threads are of low enough quality for goof off, so long as they carry a topic of some sort. Goof off is a place for posts that are detrimental to the functioning of the site, mostly in that they would occupy the tops of subforums, or have no fitting subforum, and therefore have a deficiency of value to the continued operation of CAA as a community based around discussion.
4. Does the goof-off section deserve the stigma that it gets? Or is this simply due to a consensus of people having a similar perspective? Is it fair to qualify one thread as better than another because of time/effort/lolz invested? Should forum behaviors be dictated by this stigma?
I think goof off does deserve the stigma it has, so long as the sub-forum is set up with an unclear definition of what it entails and the impression that the sites rules are reduced there because the posts don't 'count'. The RP forum doesn't count either, but it has a well defined purpose and a clear reason for posts to not count, while the goof off is a place to hide threads that one worries would cause problems elsewhere. Whether I think that the 'stigma' of Goof Off dictates forum behavior is irrelevant, because I've personally observed that it promotes behavior different than any other section of the site, mostly leaning towards rule breaking, bullying and other actions that are detrimental to the community at large.
5. Does the potentiality of a thread becoming "srs bsnz-general stuff" again after a wave of "lolz" mean it ought to stay in the general (or wherever besides goof off) section? Or should it only be moved back in the general section if the thread takes a serious turn after it is moved in the goof off?
I think well placed levity in a thread can easily lead back into serious discussion of the topic as long as the levity is taken as such and doesn't rely on antagonism or complete non-sequitor to the point where the thread is unrecognizable from the original content. If it DOES stray that way I would think a quick redirect from either members or moderators that the thread is 'off topic' should suffice, followed by a lock once the posting slows if the thread hasn't recovered or at least stabilized within a reasonable amount of time. This would allow topics to retain their place in the subforum that they're related to and, if they recover before locking, still be in the appropriate subforum when the discussion comes back on track.
I think there are not well defined definitions between a goof off and a general thread at all. We assume that 'serious topics' go in general, but reguardless of the OP or the original content, if too much silly stuff happens in the thread it's relegated to goof off. As far as I know, Goof Off was originally created to contain spam posting and keep threads like 'the longest thread ever' from camping out in places like general and preventing legitimate, non spam, threads from being on top of their respective forums.
The forum is percieved by many to be a place for humor or humorous threads, but there's an issue with that. Goof off is a dumping ground to protect the rest of the forum from spamming, not a dedicated humor forum. The fact that posts don't count in the forum (though post count rarely matters anymore) provides a stated barrier to the legitimacy of any statement made in that forum, and make it seem like many things, including the forum rules in some people's minds, don't matter there. This results in threads with more hostility or inappropriate comments than would be permitted elsewhere on the forum simply because people can hide behind doing it 'for the lulz'.
Goof off has no other solid definition that I've ever seen, other than 'that one place where random stuff goes', and most, if not all of the threads in Goof Off that aren't forum games could probably be seated in other sections of the forum fairly easily. If you have a question, link me a thread and I'll see if I can figure out a place to suggest for it.
General is less ambiguous, but as I stated above, keeping a thread in general has become a bit of a challange. General covers news, questions about life, and other topics that are somewhat random, but serious in nature, things like cooking and cars. That's pretty well handled unless things get 'too silly' by one person or another's standards, at which point the thread, good or bad originally is placed into the Goof Off thread.
2. Why does this thread deserve to be in the general section?
In the case of the thread in question, I think that the content as a news post, though humorous, places it firmly in the general section of the forum. Even the image edits, though really silly, were still on the topic of the statue, much as an editorial cartoon is still on target while being in some cases very silly.
Pointing out that the statue was silly through some creative photoshop isn't much different than everyone posting 'this statue looks like it's (fill in the blank), which I'm pretty sure, since it would all be text discussion, wouldn't be taken as off topic, or as 'too lulzy for general'. Only when it became an image, instead of a text comment, did it catch attention for being too far off base.
Dropping the thread in goof off, where posts don't count due to it being the area for spam type posting, degrades the entire discussion because in goof off, reading the entire thread is usually uncommon, and in many cases impossible for the spam related threads. This aspect of the nature of the Goof Off sub-forum results in the core of threads, the actual content, being ignored. This works fine for the forum games... (who really needs to read the entirety of the 'Wish Ruining Thread' before starting posting?) but when a thread that is suddenly deemed 'too silly for general' gets thrown into the Goof Off, the entirety of the original content that occurs before whatever caused the switch is usually lost or ignored for the short duration it survives before being sunk by the myriad game threads, regardless of content or value.
The content of the thread was still valid and the news article was still funny if not a little stale, but the thread was by no means off topic or 'too silly to recover' at the point when it was relegated to Goof Off, therefore I think it should have stayed in General. That's my personal opinion, as asked for in the questions.
3. Does the quality of a thread determine whether or not it ought to be moved to goof-off or remain in general?
I think that the goof off section causes people to question the quality of the threads in it by the way it is formatted and titled. The lack of post counting, relaxation of the spamming rules and ambiguous name and definition peg it as a place for threads that are pariah from the regular forum. I know for a fact that some of the regular users (including me) only look at the Goof Off forum when a thread we were following elsewhere is moved there.
I personally do this because there is little to no value to me in the threads in the Goof Off section, though I know that, every once in a while I might be missing a good thread.
So to get back to the question of quality, I think that almost no threads are of low enough quality for goof off, so long as they carry a topic of some sort. Goof off is a place for posts that are detrimental to the functioning of the site, mostly in that they would occupy the tops of subforums, or have no fitting subforum, and therefore have a deficiency of value to the continued operation of CAA as a community based around discussion.
4. Does the goof-off section deserve the stigma that it gets? Or is this simply due to a consensus of people having a similar perspective? Is it fair to qualify one thread as better than another because of time/effort/lolz invested? Should forum behaviors be dictated by this stigma?
I think goof off does deserve the stigma it has, so long as the sub-forum is set up with an unclear definition of what it entails and the impression that the sites rules are reduced there because the posts don't 'count'. The RP forum doesn't count either, but it has a well defined purpose and a clear reason for posts to not count, while the goof off is a place to hide threads that one worries would cause problems elsewhere. Whether I think that the 'stigma' of Goof Off dictates forum behavior is irrelevant, because I've personally observed that it promotes behavior different than any other section of the site, mostly leaning towards rule breaking, bullying and other actions that are detrimental to the community at large.
5. Does the potentiality of a thread becoming "srs bsnz-general stuff" again after a wave of "lolz" mean it ought to stay in the general (or wherever besides goof off) section? Or should it only be moved back in the general section if the thread takes a serious turn after it is moved in the goof off?
I think well placed levity in a thread can easily lead back into serious discussion of the topic as long as the levity is taken as such and doesn't rely on antagonism or complete non-sequitor to the point where the thread is unrecognizable from the original content. If it DOES stray that way I would think a quick redirect from either members or moderators that the thread is 'off topic' should suffice, followed by a lock once the posting slows if the thread hasn't recovered or at least stabilized within a reasonable amount of time. This would allow topics to retain their place in the subforum that they're related to and, if they recover before locking, still be in the appropriate subforum when the discussion comes back on track.
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mechana2015 - Posts: 5025
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:33 am
- Location: Orange County
I thought of this earlier today. Most of what normally populates Goof-Off are game threads. If Goof-Off had a more focused purpose--like if it were only a place for game threads--then General would probably be a bit more lively. Personally, I don't have a problem with having threads in General where people just post images and stuff like that, but that may or may not cause bandwith issues and other techy things that Mith would know about.
I don't have time to expound on this right now, though. Thoughts?
I don't have time to expound on this right now, though. Thoughts?
Fanfiction (updated 1/1/11)-- Lucky Star--Ginsaki ch. 4
[color="Magenta"]Sometimes I post things.[/color]
[color="Magenta"]Sometimes I post things.[/color]
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LadyRushia - Posts: 3075
- Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:38 pm
- Location: In a dorm room/a house.
I'm not going to address the specific questions right now, but I do want to touch on at least one of them by looking at the process a user has to go through to choose where to put their thread:
1) Does my topic fit into any of the specific category forums? (Such as Anime, Gaming, Tech, etc...)
2) If it does not, does it belong in General?
3) If the answer to both of the above questions is "No", then it belongs in Goof Off.
I think that this is important to note, because in this case Goof Off is, in a way, below General. General is a sort of catch-all for thread topics of note that don't belong anywhere else on the site, whereas Goof Off is the catch-all for anything that doesn't quite make it into General.
1) Does my topic fit into any of the specific category forums? (Such as Anime, Gaming, Tech, etc...)
2) If it does not, does it belong in General?
3) If the answer to both of the above questions is "No", then it belongs in Goof Off.
I think that this is important to note, because in this case Goof Off is, in a way, below General. General is a sort of catch-all for thread topics of note that don't belong anywhere else on the site, whereas Goof Off is the catch-all for anything that doesn't quite make it into General.
[font="Tahoma"][SIZE="2"]"It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things."
-Terry Pratchett[/SIZE][/font]
-Terry Pratchett[/SIZE][/font]
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Cognitive Gear - Posts: 2381
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:00 am
I can't answer 'em all, and I can only provide my perspective.
The thread started out as a (mostly) serious thread. I only moved to make it a bit silly when theological debate started to rear its ugly head. Plus, it was fun to make those pictures.
The posts, though silly pictures, WERE related to the thread topic. In other words, they were on-topic and relevant, silly as they may be. This is markedly different from say, the thread that was made on Election Day in 2008 after Obama got elected, where it started out as a political snipe against democrats, and then turned into an image dump of funny pictures, many of which were not related to the topic at all.
Does this have bearing? I'm not sure. It's different from just derailing a thread off-topic by posting silly stuff, at least.
I do feel, however, that there is a sense of "If anyone says or does anything funny at any time in a thread in General it will be moved to Goof Off." I do think that isn't necessarily right...plus, it's work for the mods. Okay, okay. Moving a thread isn't really hard work. But it's still something mostly unnecessary.
Strangely, this really only seems to happen in General. I've rarely seen a thread moved from Anime or General Entertainment, no matter how humorous or silly the posts got. Good examples are the "Silly/useless anime merchandise" thread and Fish's most recent "Giant Robo" thread.
My last thought is moving a thread to Goof Off does not somehow magically prevent it from becoming serious again. Actually, if nothing else, the moving of that thread is 100% ironclad proof of this. If the thread hadn't been moved, it likely would not have turned back to the theological debate. I think that would have been pretty unlikely after the images. I also remember at least a couple of times recently being told in Goof Off threads "Hey man, don't take this so seriously, it's just Goof Off." It's perfectly possible for people to be serious in Goof Off too.
If, for example, the thread had been moved, and someone came in and tried to start up the second commandment thing again, what would have happened? A mod probably would have warned them to stay away from the theological stuff. And...that could be done just as easily if it had stayed in General, so...I guess I don't really see the point of moving it?
Really that's what it boils down to for me. I'm not mad that it got moved. I'm not trying to correct some injustice, and if it stays in Goof Off, that's fine by me. I just don't see why it was moved in the first place. Anything that could have been done in that thread could be done no matter what subforum it was in, and the mods' actions would remain the same regardless of what subforum it was in. So moving it just seems, to me, to be a largely pointless action.
Also I really don't buy that if the thread had stayed in General, that it would somehow be taken by people to mean we had free reign to post goofy stuff all over every General thread. I find that really unlikely, so it's not like it was really hurting anything I guess is what I'm trying to say, and it wasn't going to be taken as an example of "Do this to every thread!" so...I don't really buy that those things would happen if the thread had stayed.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.
The thread started out as a (mostly) serious thread. I only moved to make it a bit silly when theological debate started to rear its ugly head. Plus, it was fun to make those pictures.
The posts, though silly pictures, WERE related to the thread topic. In other words, they were on-topic and relevant, silly as they may be. This is markedly different from say, the thread that was made on Election Day in 2008 after Obama got elected, where it started out as a political snipe against democrats, and then turned into an image dump of funny pictures, many of which were not related to the topic at all.
Does this have bearing? I'm not sure. It's different from just derailing a thread off-topic by posting silly stuff, at least.
I do feel, however, that there is a sense of "If anyone says or does anything funny at any time in a thread in General it will be moved to Goof Off." I do think that isn't necessarily right...plus, it's work for the mods. Okay, okay. Moving a thread isn't really hard work. But it's still something mostly unnecessary.
Strangely, this really only seems to happen in General. I've rarely seen a thread moved from Anime or General Entertainment, no matter how humorous or silly the posts got. Good examples are the "Silly/useless anime merchandise" thread and Fish's most recent "Giant Robo" thread.
My last thought is moving a thread to Goof Off does not somehow magically prevent it from becoming serious again. Actually, if nothing else, the moving of that thread is 100% ironclad proof of this. If the thread hadn't been moved, it likely would not have turned back to the theological debate. I think that would have been pretty unlikely after the images. I also remember at least a couple of times recently being told in Goof Off threads "Hey man, don't take this so seriously, it's just Goof Off." It's perfectly possible for people to be serious in Goof Off too.
If, for example, the thread had been moved, and someone came in and tried to start up the second commandment thing again, what would have happened? A mod probably would have warned them to stay away from the theological stuff. And...that could be done just as easily if it had stayed in General, so...I guess I don't really see the point of moving it?
Really that's what it boils down to for me. I'm not mad that it got moved. I'm not trying to correct some injustice, and if it stays in Goof Off, that's fine by me. I just don't see why it was moved in the first place. Anything that could have been done in that thread could be done no matter what subforum it was in, and the mods' actions would remain the same regardless of what subforum it was in. So moving it just seems, to me, to be a largely pointless action.
Also I really don't buy that if the thread had stayed in General, that it would somehow be taken by people to mean we had free reign to post goofy stuff all over every General thread. I find that really unlikely, so it's not like it was really hurting anything I guess is what I'm trying to say, and it wasn't going to be taken as an example of "Do this to every thread!" so...I don't really buy that those things would happen if the thread had stayed.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.
Ezekiel 23:20
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Nate - Posts: 10725
- Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: Oh right, like anyone actually cares.
Another quick thought, with examples:
The use of Goof Off is not clear to many users. Using some recent threads as examples:
Disney Villain Quote Thread (Currently in Goof Off)
Cutests Anime Characters (Currently in Anime)
I could dig up a whole lot of examples, but I just went with the two most recent that were also the most similar in post content. Neither thread has an active conversation going on, both consist of people posting very simple lists of things they like. One was put in Goof Off, the other into Anime.
Which one is in the correct place?
The use of Goof Off is not clear to many users. Using some recent threads as examples:
Disney Villain Quote Thread (Currently in Goof Off)
Cutests Anime Characters (Currently in Anime)
I could dig up a whole lot of examples, but I just went with the two most recent that were also the most similar in post content. Neither thread has an active conversation going on, both consist of people posting very simple lists of things they like. One was put in Goof Off, the other into Anime.
Which one is in the correct place?
[font="Tahoma"][SIZE="2"]"It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things."
-Terry Pratchett[/SIZE][/font]
-Terry Pratchett[/SIZE][/font]
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Cognitive Gear - Posts: 2381
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:00 am
This is really a Mithrandir-level decision, but here is an old fart moderator opinion.
Goof Off serves two purposes from a technical perspective: first, it is a forum where threads are not guaranteed to persist, and second, it is a forum where posts are not counted. This achieves the larger goal of allowing people to have fun but not adversely affecting post count and, if desirable, reclaiming the space from what everyone acknowledges are potentially purgeable threads. I am not aware of any purges done in the recent past, but the possibility comes as part of the territory (see my old, old sticky post).
Image posting is fun, and even entertaining, but it is a much lower signal type of post than standard replies (like the well-reasoned ones we're getting in this thread, even). That doesn't make it bad per se, but that does tend to both slow down discussions because the context gets buried after x image posts and it causes threads to swell. Ditto for rapid back and forths, game posts, etc. I don't have a problem with a thread evolving that direction if discussion has petered out, but Nate's argument that moving to Goof Off doesn't make the thread get serious again is actually a case of the horse having already left the barn -- by that time, I submit it wouldn't have anyway. And, ironically, threatening Goof Off, as I myself have done in the past, tends to straighten out threads.
Which brings me to my final point: I don't intend moving a thread to Goof Off to be a wrist slap, and I think I speak for LR when I say I don't think she meant it that way either. People should have fun, but splitting a thread into fun and serious doesn't happen in real life. I certainly think gestalt judgments on the tone of a thread are fraught with peril because they don't have firm rules, but I don't think there's a firm dividing line anyway. Moving a thread to Goof Off merely represents an opinion that the thread has outlived its usefulness and people can carry on in whatever vein they like in a manner that doesn't adversely affect the rest of the site. If people dispute that, straighten the thread out.
So my proposal, subject to review by the White Wizard, is simply to give people a chance to determine the thread's destiny. Rather than unilateral moves without warning, I think having us suggest when we think the thread is going Goof Off way (notice I didn't say the wrong way) gives people a chance who want to turn the thread back toward serious discussion the chance to do that, and the people who'd prefer to have fun to either back off, or make a parallel thread in Goof Off and leave a link (hint
). Then everyone is happy. I'll even propose a corollary that the mod who gives the warning should not be the one that moves it, just so that it's a collective opinion rather than somebody acting unilaterally. Does that seem fair?
I don't want people to regard thread moves as punitive, because they aren't meant that way, and if it's seen that way then I think us mods should take the blame for that. But there is a purpose behind it.
Goof Off serves two purposes from a technical perspective: first, it is a forum where threads are not guaranteed to persist, and second, it is a forum where posts are not counted. This achieves the larger goal of allowing people to have fun but not adversely affecting post count and, if desirable, reclaiming the space from what everyone acknowledges are potentially purgeable threads. I am not aware of any purges done in the recent past, but the possibility comes as part of the territory (see my old, old sticky post).
Image posting is fun, and even entertaining, but it is a much lower signal type of post than standard replies (like the well-reasoned ones we're getting in this thread, even). That doesn't make it bad per se, but that does tend to both slow down discussions because the context gets buried after x image posts and it causes threads to swell. Ditto for rapid back and forths, game posts, etc. I don't have a problem with a thread evolving that direction if discussion has petered out, but Nate's argument that moving to Goof Off doesn't make the thread get serious again is actually a case of the horse having already left the barn -- by that time, I submit it wouldn't have anyway. And, ironically, threatening Goof Off, as I myself have done in the past, tends to straighten out threads.
Which brings me to my final point: I don't intend moving a thread to Goof Off to be a wrist slap, and I think I speak for LR when I say I don't think she meant it that way either. People should have fun, but splitting a thread into fun and serious doesn't happen in real life. I certainly think gestalt judgments on the tone of a thread are fraught with peril because they don't have firm rules, but I don't think there's a firm dividing line anyway. Moving a thread to Goof Off merely represents an opinion that the thread has outlived its usefulness and people can carry on in whatever vein they like in a manner that doesn't adversely affect the rest of the site. If people dispute that, straighten the thread out.
So my proposal, subject to review by the White Wizard, is simply to give people a chance to determine the thread's destiny. Rather than unilateral moves without warning, I think having us suggest when we think the thread is going Goof Off way (notice I didn't say the wrong way) gives people a chance who want to turn the thread back toward serious discussion the chance to do that, and the people who'd prefer to have fun to either back off, or make a parallel thread in Goof Off and leave a link (hint
). Then everyone is happy. I'll even propose a corollary that the mod who gives the warning should not be the one that moves it, just so that it's a collective opinion rather than somebody acting unilaterally. Does that seem fair?
I don't want people to regard thread moves as punitive, because they aren't meant that way, and if it's seen that way then I think us mods should take the blame for that. But there is a purpose behind it.
"you're a doctor.... and 27 years.... so...doctor + 27 years = HATORI SOHMA" - RoyalWing, when I was 27
"Al hail the forum editting Shooby! His vibes are law!" - Osaka-chan
I could still be champ, but I'd feel bad taking it away from one of the younger guys. - George Foreman
"Al hail the forum editting Shooby! His vibes are law!" - Osaka-chan
I could still be champ, but I'd feel bad taking it away from one of the younger guys. - George Foreman
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shooraijin - Posts: 9928
- Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 12:00 pm
- Location: Southern California
Hmm, okay, I can see that. Although as you said, it's really more Mith's bag, but I understand where you're coming from. Like I said, it doesn't particularly matter to me where it ends up. XD
Well what I meant was, I was more referring to what Corrie said in her post in the thread. Not picking on her, by the way. But one of the things she said was: "I think Rushia was trying to keep the theological debate topics that could've gotten out of hand from coming back and potentially locking the thread."
My statement was, moving the thread to Goof Off does not somehow prevent the theological debate topics from coming back. Someone could easily go into the thread while it is in Goof Off and try to start a theology debate again. So, I don't understand this thought process that "Moving the thread to Goof Off will prevent it from turning back into a debate somehow." The only way I can think of is to delete/edit any posts that try to do that (as well as warn the person trying to stir it back up), and possibly lock the thread if they continue...both of which could easily be done in General, so it's not like Goof Off is somehow a necessary step in the process.
Unless I'm misunderstanding what Corrie was saying there, this is more or less what I was trying to say.
Nate's argument that moving to Goof Off doesn't make the thread get serious again is actually a case of the horse having already left the barn -- by that time, I submit it wouldn't have anyway.
Well what I meant was, I was more referring to what Corrie said in her post in the thread. Not picking on her, by the way. But one of the things she said was: "I think Rushia was trying to keep the theological debate topics that could've gotten out of hand from coming back and potentially locking the thread."
My statement was, moving the thread to Goof Off does not somehow prevent the theological debate topics from coming back. Someone could easily go into the thread while it is in Goof Off and try to start a theology debate again. So, I don't understand this thought process that "Moving the thread to Goof Off will prevent it from turning back into a debate somehow." The only way I can think of is to delete/edit any posts that try to do that (as well as warn the person trying to stir it back up), and possibly lock the thread if they continue...both of which could easily be done in General, so it's not like Goof Off is somehow a necessary step in the process.
Unless I'm misunderstanding what Corrie was saying there, this is more or less what I was trying to say.
Ezekiel 23:20
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Nate - Posts: 10725
- Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: Oh right, like anyone actually cares.
No, I agree that's not the purpose of Goof Off. If there is a lockable issue coming up in the thread, then the decision should be lock-or-not, not move-or-not.
"you're a doctor.... and 27 years.... so...doctor + 27 years = HATORI SOHMA" - RoyalWing, when I was 27
"Al hail the forum editting Shooby! His vibes are law!" - Osaka-chan
I could still be champ, but I'd feel bad taking it away from one of the younger guys. - George Foreman
"Al hail the forum editting Shooby! His vibes are law!" - Osaka-chan
I could still be champ, but I'd feel bad taking it away from one of the younger guys. - George Foreman
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shooraijin - Posts: 9928
- Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 12:00 pm
- Location: Southern California
To clarify, my reasoning for moving that thread today was mostly because the images took over and people were having fun with them. The other part was actually what Corrie said. I thought that putting it there would kill any lingering temptation for people to bring the discussion back to lockable territory. Clearly, it didn't work out that way.
I like everything that shoo suggested. They seem like very good ideas, and in addition to that it might be beneficial to figure out some way to give Goof-Off more of a focus as opposed to a catch-all as Phil said. We will have to have for Mith's input before setting anything into place, though.
I like everything that shoo suggested. They seem like very good ideas, and in addition to that it might be beneficial to figure out some way to give Goof-Off more of a focus as opposed to a catch-all as Phil said. We will have to have for Mith's input before setting anything into place, though.
Fanfiction (updated 1/1/11)-- Lucky Star--Ginsaki ch. 4
[color="Magenta"]Sometimes I post things.[/color]
[color="Magenta"]Sometimes I post things.[/color]
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LadyRushia - Posts: 3075
- Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:38 pm
- Location: In a dorm room/a house.
I could comment on a lot, but I'd be here all week. XD So far, I find everyone's post to be informative and well thought out.
Therefore, I'm going to simply post here and agree with Shooby.
I also agree that Mith should make the final call on this.
EDIT: Not meaning to shove everything on him, though. XDD Just that I support the decision he makes on this.
Therefore, I'm going to simply post here and agree with Shooby.
Shooby wrote: So my proposal, subject to review by the White Wizard, is simply to give people a chance to determine the thread's destiny. Rather than unilateral moves without warning, I think having us suggest when we think the thread is going Goof Off way (notice I didn't say the wrong way) gives people a chance who want to turn the thread back toward serious discussion the chance to do that, and the people who'd prefer to have fun to either back off, or make a parallel thread in Goof Off and leave a link (hint ). Then everyone is happy. I'll even propose a corollary that the mod who gives the warning should not be the one that moves it, just so that it's a collective opinion rather than somebody acting unilaterally. Does that seem fair?
I don't want people to regard thread moves as punitive, because they aren't meant that way, and if it's seen that way then I think us mods should take the blame for that. But there is a purpose behind it.
I also agree that Mith should make the final call on this.
EDIT: Not meaning to shove everything on him, though. XDD Just that I support the decision he makes on this.
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goldenspines - Posts: 4869
- Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:42 am
- Location: Up north somewhere.
Nate (post: 1415781) wrote:Well what I meant was, I was more referring to what Corrie said in her post in the thread. Not picking on her, by the way. But one of the things she said was: "I think Rushia was trying to keep the theological debate topics that could've gotten out of hand from coming back and potentially locking the thread."
My statement was, moving the thread to Goof Off does not somehow prevent the theological debate topics from coming back. Someone could easily go into the thread while it is in Goof Off and try to start a theology debate again. So, I don't understand this thought process that "Moving the thread to Goof Off will prevent it from turning back into a debate somehow." The only way I can think of is to delete/edit any posts that try to do that (as well as warn the person trying to stir it back up), and possibly lock the thread if they continue...both of which could easily be done in General, so it's not like Goof Off is somehow a necessary step in the process.
Unless I'm misunderstanding what Corrie was saying there, this is more or less what I was trying to say.
No, that's pretty much what I meant when I wrote that. XD I understand where you're coming from, though, and yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense, given some of the things we've had happen in Goof Off recently. XD
Anyways, I really like what you proposed, Shoo, and I think that would be the best way for us to implement a good system for dealing with threads like this right now. That way, there aren't any executive decisions where we as a staff are split, and there aren't any decisions where the members feel like they've been cheated out of a thread.
Phill wrote:I think that this is important to note, because in this case Goof Off is, in a way, below General. General is a sort of catch-all for thread topics of note that don't belong anywhere else on the site, whereas Goof Off is the catch-all for anything that doesn't quite make it into General.
Yeah, that's very true. And I think that Rushia put forth a good option in changing Goof Off from the "catch all" to the "game thread." We have a lot of threads in Goof Off that really have no point at all, not even to list things or share quotes (including chatbot quotes) or play games, and I think it's those kinds of threads that most people are talking about when they refer to Goof Off as the "lower" board. These are the kinds of threads that I don't even think we need on the site, and while it's not really my place to suggest whether or not they ought to be there, it's something that might be good to look at as we decide what we really want Goof Off and General to be.
Also, based on Shoo's suggestion, I think it might be high time that we start purging at least some of the old Goof Off threads. XD We DO have a related disclaimer in that forum, after all. XD
Ryan wrote:My second issue with this was the attitude towards the goof-off section of CAA. It seems like there is a level of stigma towards it. Perhaps this is because of the amount of (what some members of CAA would see. This is of course relative to each individual.) useless or unnecessary thread which would overtake a thread which is more likable by a different group of individuals. So a fourth question:
4. Does the goof-off section deserve the stigma that it gets? Or is this simply due to a consensus of people having a similar perspective? Is it fair to qualify one thread as better than another because of time/effort/lolz invested? Should forum behaviors be dictated by this stigma?
From my perspective, I want to say that it seems like this is a case where "The People" (CAA Members) set up the "System" (The stigma against goof-off. Seeing it as a graveyard, etc) and then become bound by the system. We created this stigma of the goof-off thread because of our own perceptions of "good thread" vs "bad thread". Combine this with other people with a similar belief, then the stigma is born. But I would argue that this is unnecessary.
This is an interesting point that you're making here. And truthfully, CAA does have a number of interest groups, and we can't cater to all of them. There are some members who really enjoy the Goof Off threads that others find entirely pointless. In fact, as an example, I'll use The Bump Thread from a few years ago. To some members, that was the only reason CAA even existed, and to other members, it was entirely pointless, if they even knew about it at all. I think that the pointless Goof Off threads are like this.
To CAA's younger members, it's a place to let loose and have fun. To CAA's older members, it's completely pointless and isn't "fun" at all. There's an age gap, a maturity gap, and a personality gap between the members who like the Goof Off section and those who don't (and I'm not saying either is better, just different). So yeah, it makes sense that there would be a stigma placed on the forum from the older members who don't like it, but it doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't exist.
Writing this has actually spawned a couple of other thoughts, but I'm not gonna go into those right now. XD Anyways, I'm pleased with how this thread is running so far!
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Radical Dreamer - Posts: 7950
- Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:00 am
- Location: Some place where I can think up witty things to say under the "Location" category.
I prefer to keep answers simplistic whenever possible, since I believe that the world runs a lot easier that way, and that simple answers tend to work surprisingly well to sum up what could otherwise take up massive amounts of space explaining. To that end, I submit my own answer to this quandary:
It is what it is.
It is what it is.
If this post seems too utterly absurd or ridiculous to be taken seriously, don't.
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Htom Sirveaux - Posts: 2429
- Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:00 pm
- Location: Camp Hill, PA
Boy oh boy, it's time for another lightning round of Fish's home brand of TL;DR. May contain small traces of serious business, but otherwise suitable for the whole family.
I think all forums should be driven by user generated content. Earlier I used the term "Time wasting" to refer specifically to Goof Off, though really it's something that could be prescribed across the board in entirety; there isn't anything on CAA that isn't, technically, time wasting. All the time and effort we spend talking about things, discussing things, we could be using towards furthering other pursuits, etcetera etcetera. Instead, we keep an inordinate amount of time shelved for what is essentially a massively-multiplayer online conversation. Nearly all of it user generated content.
However, there are different densities in content.
Members like Blkmage, for example, make grand, sweeping threads that foster healthy discussion. Threads like his and others like them are high in content density, and - if he'll allow the compliment - are some of the best threads on CAA. Threads that encourage and thrive on user input, creating a thick carpet of thought and speech, in short and simple bursts of conversation or elaborate creative endeavors, expressing ideas and opinions.
Meanwhile, there also stand threads that are very low on content density, threads that don't lend themselves towards anything meaningful - not really meaningful - such as forum games.
Take word association. Something enjoyable, for some people, sure, but ultimately a very trivial pursuit, a meaningless practice performed for that momentary buzz of fun in those who find it fun. Nothing of Substance. Threads like these are, bluntly, a step above admin approved spam. Threads and posts that accomplish nothing.
The problem is, those meaningless threads and posts are among the easiest to make, and so they tend to be made frequently, leading to a glut of useless posts. So on a board where you have 1,000 posts, maybe 300 of them tops are posts worth reading or rereading. The remain 700 are meaningless drivel, albeit fun meaningless drivel to those in participation.
In my opinion, Goof Off exists to permit those useless posts to exist, but contained, quarantined from polluting the rest of the board; cutting down on the static for a clearer signal. I can browse general now know each of these threads is about something, not having to sift through several Rate the Avatar/Signature/Location Above You threads to reach a thread that says something I want to hear. Personally, if I ran CAA - and I do not mean this to be a subversive way of saying I should run CAA - I wouldn't allow such threads to exist in the first place. However, as CAA is an entity that has decided to permit the creation and participation of such threads, Goof Off was conceived as a means to contain (or cultivate) them separately from the rest of the site. Goof Off is simply the label, not a literal application; Goof Off is not the "Silly" board, it's the "Useless" board. It is not something to be improved upon by the relocation of good threads any more than you would throw out good money with the trash to increase the net worth of your garbage.
That said, there is a certain misappropriation I believe some of my detractors have been operating under. This misappropriation isn't their fault; far from it, as it was presumptuous of me to assume it would be understood at a glance. Therefore, it is a wrinkle that deserves smoothing out:
Every single one of those Touchdown Jesus Edits was user created by CAA for CAA. Not one of them was stumbled upon on some blog or image cache, each one was individually formed in the MS Paint or Photoshop of an active CAA members, only shortly before being posted by those same members.
Under my own parameters that I myself just established, memes and the mass linking of images should qualify as premium unleaded Goof Off material. However, these were original content, from the desktops of CAA's own userbase. When I casually mentioned four hours versus four seconds in the previous thread, I meant four hours of conception and creation, not four hours of clicking around, scrounging for the leftovers of another site. A few of the posters, at least, seemed to get it. I assumed Corrie did as well, as she had joined in the fun as well, briefly, and that the rest of the staff would see it similarly.
It was completely presumptuous of me to think this, for which I can only apologize.
I think all forums should be driven by user generated content. Earlier I used the term "Time wasting" to refer specifically to Goof Off, though really it's something that could be prescribed across the board in entirety; there isn't anything on CAA that isn't, technically, time wasting. All the time and effort we spend talking about things, discussing things, we could be using towards furthering other pursuits, etcetera etcetera. Instead, we keep an inordinate amount of time shelved for what is essentially a massively-multiplayer online conversation. Nearly all of it user generated content.
However, there are different densities in content.
Members like Blkmage, for example, make grand, sweeping threads that foster healthy discussion. Threads like his and others like them are high in content density, and - if he'll allow the compliment - are some of the best threads on CAA. Threads that encourage and thrive on user input, creating a thick carpet of thought and speech, in short and simple bursts of conversation or elaborate creative endeavors, expressing ideas and opinions.
Meanwhile, there also stand threads that are very low on content density, threads that don't lend themselves towards anything meaningful - not really meaningful - such as forum games.
Take word association. Something enjoyable, for some people, sure, but ultimately a very trivial pursuit, a meaningless practice performed for that momentary buzz of fun in those who find it fun. Nothing of Substance. Threads like these are, bluntly, a step above admin approved spam. Threads and posts that accomplish nothing.
The problem is, those meaningless threads and posts are among the easiest to make, and so they tend to be made frequently, leading to a glut of useless posts. So on a board where you have 1,000 posts, maybe 300 of them tops are posts worth reading or rereading. The remain 700 are meaningless drivel, albeit fun meaningless drivel to those in participation.
In my opinion, Goof Off exists to permit those useless posts to exist, but contained, quarantined from polluting the rest of the board; cutting down on the static for a clearer signal. I can browse general now know each of these threads is about something, not having to sift through several Rate the Avatar/Signature/Location Above You threads to reach a thread that says something I want to hear. Personally, if I ran CAA - and I do not mean this to be a subversive way of saying I should run CAA - I wouldn't allow such threads to exist in the first place. However, as CAA is an entity that has decided to permit the creation and participation of such threads, Goof Off was conceived as a means to contain (or cultivate) them separately from the rest of the site. Goof Off is simply the label, not a literal application; Goof Off is not the "Silly" board, it's the "Useless" board. It is not something to be improved upon by the relocation of good threads any more than you would throw out good money with the trash to increase the net worth of your garbage.
That said, there is a certain misappropriation I believe some of my detractors have been operating under. This misappropriation isn't their fault; far from it, as it was presumptuous of me to assume it would be understood at a glance. Therefore, it is a wrinkle that deserves smoothing out:
Every single one of those Touchdown Jesus Edits was user created by CAA for CAA. Not one of them was stumbled upon on some blog or image cache, each one was individually formed in the MS Paint or Photoshop of an active CAA members, only shortly before being posted by those same members.
Under my own parameters that I myself just established, memes and the mass linking of images should qualify as premium unleaded Goof Off material. However, these were original content, from the desktops of CAA's own userbase. When I casually mentioned four hours versus four seconds in the previous thread, I meant four hours of conception and creation, not four hours of clicking around, scrounging for the leftovers of another site. A few of the posters, at least, seemed to get it. I assumed Corrie did as well, as she had joined in the fun as well, briefly, and that the rest of the staff would see it similarly.
It was completely presumptuous of me to think this, for which I can only apologize.
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Fish and Chips - Posts: 4415
- Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:33 pm
- Location: Nowhere.
Hey guys! I'm really glad you're having this discussion. It shows you all care enough about the site to have a legitimate discussion - and THAT is really cool to me!
Most of my feelings on the marginally related topic of stress-and-respect are in the other thread, and I don't know that copy and pasting that here would help much. Instead, please check it out when you get a chance:
http://www.christiananime.net/showpost.php?p=1415822&postcount=147
As for the CURRENT topic here, it looks like there's hopeful longing for a nice cut-and-dry list of what goes where. While I agree that would be handy for everyone, it's a pretty daunting task to both generate and police that. Shooby's always level-headed idea of dropping a pleasant "you're heading to goof-off, yo!" note in the thread would probably solve the issue with less stress (or at least effort) on everyone's part.
It gets the white wizard stamp of approval. Mostly because it's largely managed to garner consensus on the main board. XD
Thanks again for being awesome, everyone!
Most of my feelings on the marginally related topic of stress-and-respect are in the other thread, and I don't know that copy and pasting that here would help much. Instead, please check it out when you get a chance:
http://www.christiananime.net/showpost.php?p=1415822&postcount=147
As for the CURRENT topic here, it looks like there's hopeful longing for a nice cut-and-dry list of what goes where. While I agree that would be handy for everyone, it's a pretty daunting task to both generate and police that. Shooby's always level-headed idea of dropping a pleasant "you're heading to goof-off, yo!" note in the thread would probably solve the issue with less stress (or at least effort) on everyone's part.
It gets the white wizard stamp of approval. Mostly because it's largely managed to garner consensus on the main board. XD
Thanks again for being awesome, everyone!
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http://www.flactem.com/
My Final Fantasy VII Walkthrough (FF7 Walkthrough)
My Final Fantasy VIII Walkthrough (FF8 Walkthrough)
My Final Fantasy IX Walkthrough (FF9 Walkthrough)
My Final Fantasy X Walkthrough (FFX Walkthrough)
Join MOES today - Plant a SIG for your tomorrow!
Follow me on Twitter! http://twitter.com/caamithrandir
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Mithrandir - Posts: 11071
- Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:00 pm
- Location: You will be baked. And then there will be cake.
I'm still fairly new here so I don't know most people's main forum hangouts, but has anyone who is seriously a goof-offer weighed in yet?
Just glancing through it appears to be Anti's, Either Wayers, and Mods.
Isn't this just normal though, that those who don't spend time in or personally dislike a section would opt to alter/elliminate it?
For example, I don't ever go into the musical sections. So to me, though they aren't unnecessary, they could be taking a little bandwidth that could be somewhere else. But to someone else, they could be vitally important, even the whole reason they sign in.
To me, Goof Off is kinda a safe zone for people who are new here. A way to slowly break into things. That's how I did it.
I also think it's a valid point that everyone who has posted here has been on the site for a number of years, so they have "graduated" from Goof Off completely.
Just my thoughts, anyways. Like I said I'm still fairly new here. XD
Just glancing through it appears to be Anti's, Either Wayers, and Mods.
Isn't this just normal though, that those who don't spend time in or personally dislike a section would opt to alter/elliminate it?
For example, I don't ever go into the musical sections. So to me, though they aren't unnecessary, they could be taking a little bandwidth that could be somewhere else. But to someone else, they could be vitally important, even the whole reason they sign in.
To me, Goof Off is kinda a safe zone for people who are new here. A way to slowly break into things. That's how I did it.
I also think it's a valid point that everyone who has posted here has been on the site for a number of years, so they have "graduated" from Goof Off completely.
Just my thoughts, anyways. Like I said I'm still fairly new here. XD
Proverbs 31:32 "...when she watches anime, she keeps the room well lit and sits at a safe distance."
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Rusty Claymore - Posts: 1258
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:18 pm
- Location: Alaska
FYI Rusty, I am glad you posted! I was starting to worry that this thread might start looking like it was "veterans and semi-veterans only," and that's not the case. XD I'm glad to hear from some new members, and you bring up some very valid points!
[color="DeepSkyBlue"]4 8 15 16 23[/color] 42
[color="PaleGreen"]Rushia: YOU ARE MY FAVORITE IGNORANT AMERICAN OF IRISH DECENT. I LOVE YOU AND YOUR POTATOES.[/color]
[color="Orange"]WELCOME TO MOES[/color]
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Radical Dreamer - Posts: 7950
- Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:00 am
- Location: Some place where I can think up witty things to say under the "Location" category.
That's precisely why I think Goof-Off needs a focus as opposed to being entirely eliminated. The reason why we have so many different sub-forums is because we have a diverse member base with a wide variety of interests. Different areas are important to different people. The problem I see with Goof-Off is, again, it has no real focus, unlike Jam Session and the other boards on this site.
Fanfiction (updated 1/1/11)-- Lucky Star--Ginsaki ch. 4
[color="Magenta"]Sometimes I post things.[/color]
[color="Magenta"]Sometimes I post things.[/color]
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LadyRushia - Posts: 3075
- Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:38 pm
- Location: In a dorm room/a house.
I completely agree with the focus idea, as I sort of pointed out in the wall o' text I finally finished editing in up above, the lack of focus is the problem. Cog made a great point when he asked what thread was in the right forum. I think the Disney villain thread should have been in entertainment. It's about Disney characters, which are western entertainment, and things they say, and that's it. Same thing with a lot of the threads in the section. I like the idea of making it 'forum games' personally, since that would allow the content to stay there that makes sense to be there, and provide the remainder of the topics a more firm footing in other subforums.
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mechana2015 - Posts: 5025
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:33 am
- Location: Orange County
If focusing things down is the choice, the fact that people define things differently comes into play. Many things could go into a thread "General Entertainment".
If it goes too far, it'll end up like my movie logs; "Are we looking for an Action/Romance, or a Romance/Action?"
It's also possible to play the, "No focus is a focus" angle. To some people E=MC2 is utter nonsense, and to others, utter nonsense is E=MC2.
If that makes any sense at all. XD
If it goes too far, it'll end up like my movie logs; "Are we looking for an Action/Romance, or a Romance/Action?"
It's also possible to play the, "No focus is a focus" angle. To some people E=MC2 is utter nonsense, and to others, utter nonsense is E=MC2.
If that makes any sense at all. XD
Proverbs 31:32 "...when she watches anime, she keeps the room well lit and sits at a safe distance."
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Rusty Claymore - Posts: 1258
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:18 pm
- Location: Alaska
[quote="Rusty Claymore (post: 1415901)"]If focusing things down is the choice, the fact that people define things differently comes into play. Many things could go into a thread "General Entertainment".
If it goes too far, it'll end up like my movie logs]
We have a General entertainment thread, which handles all forms of entertainment that aren't anime or manga.
Regarding your second part of your post, just read my response on the first question [url=Link]http://www.christiananime.net/showpost.php?p=1415773&postcount=2[/url]
in this post.
If it goes too far, it'll end up like my movie logs]
We have a General entertainment thread, which handles all forms of entertainment that aren't anime or manga.
Regarding your second part of your post, just read my response on the first question [url=Link]http://www.christiananime.net/showpost.php?p=1415773&postcount=2[/url]
in this post.
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mechana2015 - Posts: 5025
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:33 am
- Location: Orange County
Wow, I'm glad that this thread was made because there has been a lot of gray area on this stuff in the past. So I'm glad that we're settling on an absolute point and focus(Or at least attempt to do so.), rather than just a fuzzy outlook where different ideas mean different things to different people.
I'm not really adding anything to the conversation here, but I agree with a lot of what's been said.
Also, I'm really happy that we can all have a good discussion about this without it turning ugly.
I'm not really adding anything to the conversation here, but I agree with a lot of what's been said.
Also, I'm really happy that we can all have a good discussion about this without it turning ugly.
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ADXC - Posts: 2569
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:21 pm
- Location: ???
I must say I am pretty challenged by this thread: First of all, I'm probably borderline lurker at this point, (a problem I want to address by becoming more active)
But reading this thread (after the prior mentioned thread) I feel really proud of you guys, instead of bashing each other we've all kind of come together in a mature way...
I really like the suggestions that Shoo posted, and I really think that the goof off section deserves to be saved. I Kinda want to implement a "Save the Goof Off section." because I remember "Growing up" on CAA how fun it used to be.
That was a few years ago, and now that I'm older, I can honestly say that I've grown out of Goofoff a bit, (I have been kinda been busy with "life" and school and dealing with personal issues that frankly, i don't have the time to kill on Goof Off, or even in the Roleplay section where I used to LIVE lol.
Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that the goofoff probably does need at least a more thought out purpose... i know a lot of times when I make a new thread I'm always like, "Gosh, I hope this is in the right place!" So having a redefine would make it a lot easier.
I love it here at CAA, it's been an awesome haven for me and I've gotten to know a few people who I can honestly say i love talking to them outside CAA...
So I'm happy that I believe that this issue will be resolved!
Good job everyone, love you all!
/end weird ramble post by your friendly Neighborhood Kitchan.
But reading this thread (after the prior mentioned thread) I feel really proud of you guys, instead of bashing each other we've all kind of come together in a mature way...
I really like the suggestions that Shoo posted, and I really think that the goof off section deserves to be saved. I Kinda want to implement a "Save the Goof Off section." because I remember "Growing up" on CAA how fun it used to be.
That was a few years ago, and now that I'm older, I can honestly say that I've grown out of Goofoff a bit, (I have been kinda been busy with "life" and school and dealing with personal issues that frankly, i don't have the time to kill on Goof Off, or even in the Roleplay section where I used to LIVE lol.
Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that the goofoff probably does need at least a more thought out purpose... i know a lot of times when I make a new thread I'm always like, "Gosh, I hope this is in the right place!" So having a redefine would make it a lot easier.
I love it here at CAA, it's been an awesome haven for me and I've gotten to know a few people who I can honestly say i love talking to them outside CAA...
So I'm happy that I believe that this issue will be resolved!
Good job everyone, love you all!
/end weird ramble post by your friendly Neighborhood Kitchan.
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ChristianKitsune - Posts: 5420
- Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:00 pm
- Location: In my sketchbook of wonderment and puffy pink clouds! *\^o^/*
I agree with Rusty that Goof Off is a nice place for newer members to get comfortable with the board before launching into more discussion-heavy threads. It’s a place to test the waters, so to speak, meet some other members without having to “exposeâ€
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GeneD - Posts: 1969
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:43 am
- Location: South.
Goof-Off isn't being eliminated. The purge that was discussed is merely to clean out deadwood and reclaim disk space, and that would only happen to very old inactive threads.
If people think their threads are best in Goof Off just to be fun, there's no objection to that. In fact, it may well be appropriate.
If people think their threads are best in Goof Off just to be fun, there's no objection to that. In fact, it may well be appropriate.
"you're a doctor.... and 27 years.... so...doctor + 27 years = HATORI SOHMA" - RoyalWing, when I was 27
"Al hail the forum editting Shooby! His vibes are law!" - Osaka-chan
I could still be champ, but I'd feel bad taking it away from one of the younger guys. - George Foreman
"Al hail the forum editting Shooby! His vibes are law!" - Osaka-chan
I could still be champ, but I'd feel bad taking it away from one of the younger guys. - George Foreman
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shooraijin - Posts: 9928
- Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 12:00 pm
- Location: Southern California
I pretty much agree with the general opinion that Goof Off is meant to be a place for low-content threads and posts to be collected. It seems that this hasn't been clear, though, which is why we've ended up with sort of a sub-community that's grown there.
I think the other reason for Goof Off's undesirability is because it has been treated as the place for derailed threads and such. I might be overthinking it, but it feels like the exit strategy for a bad thread has been to throw it into Goof Off, which doesn't exactly discourage the destruction of good threads. I mean, the worst that'll happen is it'll get thrown there and it'll keep on going, people will continue to make bad posts in it, and life will go on. So now you've created a forum where you try to salvage bad threads and you haven't discouraged bad posting.
CAA's General subforum isn't exactly a super-serious debate and discourse section like a lot of the forums I go to, so I feel like a lot of the content that's in Goof Off can survive there. I mean, Goof Off has the special distinction of being a subforum where posts don't add to your post count. I feel like there are some posts in Goof Off that could be considered to be worth a post (using post count as a rough metric).
And it may be my own experience in learning the ropes of forum communities, but I've found that encouraging good posting in regular subforums is a far better way to introduce and encourage people to participate than giving them a forum where they can mess around indefinitely. The problem with branching out from Goof Off is that the style of posting there is extremely different from the other subforum that there is no way to reasonably ease into it except to have been posting on those subforums already. In that case, it's kind of redundant to me.
Anyhow, I do think narrowing or clearly defining the scope of Goof Off is a good idea. It may not be a bad idea to encourage posting outside of Goof Off either.
I think the other reason for Goof Off's undesirability is because it has been treated as the place for derailed threads and such. I might be overthinking it, but it feels like the exit strategy for a bad thread has been to throw it into Goof Off, which doesn't exactly discourage the destruction of good threads. I mean, the worst that'll happen is it'll get thrown there and it'll keep on going, people will continue to make bad posts in it, and life will go on. So now you've created a forum where you try to salvage bad threads and you haven't discouraged bad posting.
CAA's General subforum isn't exactly a super-serious debate and discourse section like a lot of the forums I go to, so I feel like a lot of the content that's in Goof Off can survive there. I mean, Goof Off has the special distinction of being a subforum where posts don't add to your post count. I feel like there are some posts in Goof Off that could be considered to be worth a post (using post count as a rough metric).
And it may be my own experience in learning the ropes of forum communities, but I've found that encouraging good posting in regular subforums is a far better way to introduce and encourage people to participate than giving them a forum where they can mess around indefinitely. The problem with branching out from Goof Off is that the style of posting there is extremely different from the other subforum that there is no way to reasonably ease into it except to have been posting on those subforums already. In that case, it's kind of redundant to me.
Anyhow, I do think narrowing or clearly defining the scope of Goof Off is a good idea. It may not be a bad idea to encourage posting outside of Goof Off either.
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blkmage - Posts: 4529
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 5:40 pm
It seems that most of us agree with the proposal of Goof-Off having a more specific focus. Since this is the case, what should that focus be? Should it be just for game threads? Should it include joke threads that aren't games but still purely comical in nature?
My personal feeling is that it should be the latter. That is, just game threads. Doing it that way seems to eliminate a lot of the gray area we're dealing with. I don't see a problem with anything that isn't a game being posted elsewhere on the site, even those occasional member-love threads we get.
Also, even though I killed it the whole thing, I loved those Jesus pictures too and that's why I'm an advocate for the idea that image posting threads, whether they're member-generated or just stuff found on the internet, be in General or wherever else. The only exception, I guess, would be the long dead Image Battle Royale thread, which is a game and would probably stay in Goof-Off if we narrowed that area down to games.
My personal feeling is that it should be the latter. That is, just game threads. Doing it that way seems to eliminate a lot of the gray area we're dealing with. I don't see a problem with anything that isn't a game being posted elsewhere on the site, even those occasional member-love threads we get.
Also, even though I killed it the whole thing, I loved those Jesus pictures too and that's why I'm an advocate for the idea that image posting threads, whether they're member-generated or just stuff found on the internet, be in General or wherever else. The only exception, I guess, would be the long dead Image Battle Royale thread, which is a game and would probably stay in Goof-Off if we narrowed that area down to games.
Fanfiction (updated 1/1/11)-- Lucky Star--Ginsaki ch. 4
[color="Magenta"]Sometimes I post things.[/color]
[color="Magenta"]Sometimes I post things.[/color]
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LadyRushia - Posts: 3075
- Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:38 pm
- Location: In a dorm room/a house.
LadyRushia (post: 1415962) wrote:It seems that most of us agree with the proposal of Goof-Off having a more specific focus. Since this is the case, what should that focus be? Should it be just for game threads? Should it include joke threads that aren't games but still purely comical in nature?
My personal feeling is that it should be the latter. That is, just game threads. Doing it that way seems to eliminate a lot of the gray area we're dealing with. I don't see a problem with anything that isn't a game being posted elsewhere on the site, even those occasional member-love threads we get.
That's actually the former. ^_^;
Also, I like this idea. Though, there are some threads that aren't games and aren't really material for the main board (such as silly/spam threads). Would there be a place for threads that don't want to be taken seriously but aren't really games? Or would they be classified as games and put into Goof Off? or would we ditch those kinds of thread completely (probably not the most preferable idea)? o.o
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goldenspines - Posts: 4869
- Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:42 am
- Location: Up north somewhere.
LOL I derp'd, but I just woke up not too long ago. Y'all knew what I meant, XD.
I guess if a thread didn't want to take itself seriously, it would have to be really obvious about the fact that it's a joke. I'm thinking of one Goof-Off thread that happened not too long ago about existentialism or nihilism, or one of those philosophical "isms." Then again, that thread was supposed to be a joke and it still turned serious.
Other than that, I think a lot of what we consider silly spam threads would be just fine on the other boards. We'd probably have to implement a stricter policy on posting threads with substance. For example, a thread that just says "i liek cheese lol" should be deleted in my opinion, and the OP should be encouraged to try again by adding more substance to the thread. There's a huge difference between "i liek cheese lol" and a thread about the person's favorite kind of cheese and why it's their favorite, and then asking the other members what kind of cheese they like.
I guess if a thread didn't want to take itself seriously, it would have to be really obvious about the fact that it's a joke. I'm thinking of one Goof-Off thread that happened not too long ago about existentialism or nihilism, or one of those philosophical "isms." Then again, that thread was supposed to be a joke and it still turned serious.
Other than that, I think a lot of what we consider silly spam threads would be just fine on the other boards. We'd probably have to implement a stricter policy on posting threads with substance. For example, a thread that just says "i liek cheese lol" should be deleted in my opinion, and the OP should be encouraged to try again by adding more substance to the thread. There's a huge difference between "i liek cheese lol" and a thread about the person's favorite kind of cheese and why it's their favorite, and then asking the other members what kind of cheese they like.
Fanfiction (updated 1/1/11)-- Lucky Star--Ginsaki ch. 4
[color="Magenta"]Sometimes I post things.[/color]
[color="Magenta"]Sometimes I post things.[/color]
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LadyRushia - Posts: 3075
- Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:38 pm
- Location: In a dorm room/a house.
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