Countdown to MGS4

[Stephen]

Jamie, that scene made me very disapointed. I was like...it cannot end like this. I was glad things went how they did.

[Raiden no Kishi]

Dude, Johnny is fricking awesome.

[spoiler]I was gonna be REALLY **** if he and Meryl died at the end. And you're right, that microwave corridor part...holy crap. Fricking intense![/spoiler]

+1 to Johnny is the man. He is now definitely my favorite character, YES more than Snake and YES more than Raiden (and yes, I have pretty much always liked Raiden more than Snake and not because of his moniker). I had an idea for a wallpaper. Alls I need is the right screencap.

[spoiler]Kojima and co. get mad props for taking characters out of Snake's shadow and putting spotlights on them. In the course of the series, Otacon the jeans-wetting nerd becomes Dr. Hal Emmerich, the man with the plan who provides a beating heart to balance Snake's fists. Jack the whiny rookie becomes Raiden, the cyborg ninja to end all cyborg ninja who does with a sword and a knife what Snake needs heavy weaponry to do (that is, take out Gekko), takes the "im" out of the "immortal" Vamp in a knife fight (yes, they had to stop Vamp's healing factor first, but even without it, Vamp's still a major threat), cuts his own arm off and holds back a warship to give Snake an opportunity to escape, and takes on squads of elite commandos with a sword in his teeth - then settles down to be a family man. And the crowning achievement IMO is Johnny. Johnny the human running gag goes from pathetic screw-up who only distinguishes himself from the other cannon fodder by having a name and severe bowel problems to Johnny, the unlikely white knight in Kevlar who is (if inadvertently) immune to Liquid's superweapon that stops armies and even brings Snake to his knees, sports a .50 BMG antimateriel rifle with practiced ease, thinks ahead to bring plenty of spare ammo, and ends up marrying the pretty redhead who carries a pair of Desert Eagles, commands special forces, and whose ideal man was once Solid freakin' Snake. It says something when even the comic relief can become top-notch hero material.[/spoiler]

Maybe when prices come down, I'll actually get a PS3 and play the games. This series was a near-flawless example of masterful storytelling.

[spoiler]The only blemish on MGS4 for me was the B&Bs. Laughing Octopus was cool, but I couldn't find any sort of motivation to feel sympathy. Their backstories felt very tacked on. Snake beats one and Drebin calls to say, "Oh by the way, Snake my man, this chick had this totally horrific past n' stuff, and that's why she got all crazy. You killing her set her at peace. Good work." I even got to the point that I skipped the last one and half of the third. I just didn't care. At all. The Cobra unit was cool. The FOXHOUND guys were pretty awesome. Dead Cell was also quite interesting. The B&Bs? Not doing it for me. I'd have waited an extra month or two for better bosses story-wise. If they had gotten them right, it would have been FLAWLESS VICTORY.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]And yes, I was suitably outraged when Snake put his gun in his mouth and you hear a gunshot. I was all, "OH HECK NO. NO YOU FREAKING DIDN'T," and then all of a sudden it was Big Boss and I went from, "HECK NO" to "Wait, WHAT?" Epic win.[/spoiler]

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots is completely and utterly deserving of the term "epic".

.rai//

[Solid Ronin]

I noticed that too.

Confused the heck out of me.

On, and Ronin.
[spoiler]Remember that Drebin injected Snake with a new strain of FOXDIE since Drebin was under orders of the Patriots. His targets were Big Boss, Eva, and Ocelot.[/spoiler]

Yes I remember, that's what confused things for me.

[spoiler]that scene went through my mind and kept up bringing new "reason" why Gun of The Patriots was affecting Snake. But yeah that's the only thing I had a hard time remembering, Thank you.

Also...I was kinda disappointed that Snake DID'NT kill himself, don't get me wrong I loved the ending still but I though for sure Snake was gonna off himself so when he didn't couldn't help but feel let down...Once again I note that still loved the ending.[/spoiler]

[Bobtheduck]

This game is getting such praise that I wish people like the person who wrote that NYT article would realize that, hey, maybe games don't have to "use their own native language" and that games can be a viable storytelling medium that don't have to follow the "rules" of gaming because it's still a relatively new medium, compared to TV, film, novels, theater...

[Stephen]

People are allowed to not like MGS4. They are just not as good as people who do.

[ShiroiHikari]

[spoiler]When Snake went to put the gun in his mouth, I yelled at the screen. Anyone else?[/spoiler]

I cried at that. I'm serious, it took all I had not to burst out sobbing.

[Omega Amen]

I finished my first playthrough early this morning (i.e. a little past midnight). I took the hard way and went for the no continues, health items, total stealth route in my first playthrough on Solid Normal. Here are my stats:

Difficulty: Solid Normal

Total Play Time: 20:41:27
Continues: 0
Alert Phases: 0
Kills: 0
Recovery Items Used: 0
Weapon Types Procured: 45
Flashbacks Watched: 173
Special Items Used: Not Used

Total Bonus: 142,970 DP
Current Drebin Points: 158,692 DP

Title Rank: Wolf
Other Titles: Octopus, Pidgeon, Inchworm, Scorpion


In terms of quality of production, this game is in a completely different class than anything else out there, and I am including high production PC/360 games. In that sense, it is the clear leading candidate for Game of the Year and it will be hard act to follow if not near impossible. I also do feel this game will be later marked as a significant milestone in the history of gaming. And I did find it a joy to play through.

That being said, I feel that some major opportunities were missed. All of them are kind of spoiler-related:

[SPOILER]1. Lack of Significant Tactical Sneaking in Act 3: This is a major lost opportunity since it presents an intriguing environment with many interesting gameplay possibilities: a dark, foggy city under curfew. If you think about it, that is not quite like interior sneaking in Shadow Moses, or a warzone, or a outdoor/jungle environment. It would have been awesome to go in/out of residences, avoiding car patrols/checkpoints, going on rooftops while avoiding helicopters....

2. Beauty & Beast Corps stories' really do not tie to Snake: And as a result, this is probably the most apathetic I have felt about bosses in this series. While the fights themselves were fine, the reason we care about bosses like the MGS1 ones is that their stories or personalities are more detailed and revealed to the player and tend to tie to Snake either directly or indirectly. Would we have cared about Sniper Wolf, Vulcan Raven, Revolver Ocelot if their only motivation is "to be cleansed" and they can only scream one-liners? No, we are intrigued by Vulcan Raven's mystical/cryptic foresight into Snake's heritage and role in the world, the relationship between Otacon and Sniper Wolf, and how Ocelot tortured Snake.... I would have preferred that the beauties were traumatized due to consequences of Snake's actions in previous games, and that Liquid promised them revenge and infused their fighting abilities via nanomachines of his former FOXHOUND comrades. This would have been a better narrative shock to the player, and reinforce the recurring series' theme that Snake seems to live a cursed existence (and motivate the player to not kill the bosses).

3. Snake should have died via gun-in-the-mouth at the end, and Big Boss should have stayed dead after Metal Gear 2: And seeing people's reactions to Snake's gun-in-the-mouth scene here in this thread has made me even more confident of taking this position. First, the scene of Big Boss at the very end was not written well, really implausible even by MGS standards, and unnecessarily long, lessening its impact. Second, Snake dieing would have reinforced the fatalistic theme of the series that Snake lives a cursed life, and reinforce this game's theme that Snake is heroic by suffering/sacrificing for others despite the conditions being unfair to him. Third, it would have been a far more powerful ending. Imagine the suicide scene being the last visible cutscene, followed by sad music during the credits roll, and then the final conversation you listen is between Otacon and Sunny a few years later the incident, where Otacon is trying to explain to a distraught, teenage Sunny why Snake chose suicide (Sunny was initially told he died due to heart failure) while you are staring at the black/white ending title screen. It would have been a heart-wrenching, exhaustive experience, but it would have been way more powerful, impactful, and memorable as an ending.[/spoiler]

Don't get me wrong. I love this game, and if you listen to the Gamecast, I sing nothing but praises for it and will be one of my all-time favorites. I guess I feel that this game could have really become the gold standard for decades to come, but it could not quite reach it because of not making some hard design decisions at certain points in the game.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Jeeze, Omega. I'm on my second run-through and I've ALREADY been spotted like 24 times... I blame Half-Life for my inability to be stealthy!

[spoiler]Omega, I agree with you on almost all points. The last one I tend to half-agree with. Yes I believe that the story would have been more tragic in a good way if he did kill himself, but I was just so giddy to see Big Boss alive again. I agree that it felt a little tacked-on and implausible, but Big Boss is my favorite character... so... yeah. Haha.[/spoiler]

[Nightshade X]

I'm unsure that I'll gain much support from many people about this but...

[spoiler]I teared up at Raiden's last scene in the game, where he reconciles with Rose and John. Especially at the part where Raiden says that he'll never leave Rose alone again. Call me a sap... call me a fruits basket... but I always liked Raiden and I'm glad that his tragedy was resolved on a happier note. Actually, I'm just glad he isn't dead.[/spoiler]

[ShiroiHikari]

I'm unsure that I'll gain much support from many people about this but...

[spoiler]I teared up at Raiden's last scene in the game, where he reconciles with Rose and John. Especially at the part where Raiden says that he'll never leave Rose alone again. Call me a sap... call me a fruits basket... but I always liked Raiden and I'm glad that his tragedy was resolved on a happier note. Actually, I'm just glad he isn't dead.[/spoiler]

Dude, that made me pretty happy too. I cried a little, actually. And I know many people don't like him, but I always did, so there. XD

[Bobtheduck]

As I said on another forum,

[spoiler]After the downer note of MGS2 and MGS3 and the entire MGS4 game up to that point being depressing, I think Kojima, who feels the same as snake, and feels his time is up and wants to pass on to new generations, may have wanted a more optimistic ending. IN fact, I almost consider THAT the harder choice to make... It's easy to kill everyone off, well easy in some ways, but he was tired of that... He needed something positive to end it on. [/spoiler]

As for the B&B, I'll agree they are the weakest part of the game, story wise. Of course, I felt the same about the Cobras, and what's worse, the cobras had terrible voice acting (with the possible exception of the fury, and of course "the joy" but she doesn't count) and their scenes were way too cheesy to be meaningful. The B&B voice acting was a notch above the Cobras, even though the lines were even cheesier... That's why they fleshed out two other villains, though... The B&B were just placeholder villains.

Don't know what to say about your first point, Omega... I hated this part on the first time through, but as I saw more of it, and saw the random crazy stuff that happens (different every time) I've really grown to love that scene.

[Stephen]

[SPOILER]I don't see why people don't like the fact that Big Boss is alive. Why should he have stayed dead? Freaken Raiden had everything done to him, including a big friggen boat running him over yet he was ok. I was more shocked then annoyed by the Big Boss thing. And Snake killing himself...would have been lame. If they were going to kill him, he should have died after they reached GW. Like when Naomis speech is done, the Mk3 would have gone over and pulled one of the drones off Snake, only to realize he was gone. That would have been more a heroes ending then blowing his head off. As it is, I have no real complaints about MGS4. As others have said the BBs were meh. But I can live with that. Now the real question. Can you get the Patriot somehow? Like some rank of completion maybe?[/SPOILER]

[Jingo Jaden]

Edit: Ignore the link unless you want a pretty detailed walkthrough.

[spoiler] Yeah, its a 100 gun fully automatic gun. *unlimited ammo* However to do it, you have to do a quite hard challenge.

*From another site*

Complete the game in Single Player mode on the hardest difficulty using no continues, instigating no alerts, killing no enemies (including Bosses), using no life recovery items, using no stealth suit or bandanna special items. You can have the items in your inventory but they shouldn’t be activated. You should also have a completion time of less than 5 hours.

Some of the bosses can be killed useing tranq weapons, some are unaviodable to kill as well as far as I know. Hope that helps. PS: The hardest difficulty is alot harder than the second hardest seeing that the soldiers have some sort of magic hearing aid and a sight that will put a hawk to shame. For more details, check this site for a walkthrough. http://romeuy.com/cheats/metal-gear-solid-4-mgs4-walkthrough-with-cheats-and-hints [/spoiler]

[Omega Amen]

I still stand by my position after reading some counter-arguments. Here are my reasons:

[SPOILER]Why Big Boss should have stayed dead: Do realize that I finished MGS3 and Portable Ops immediately before I played MGS4, and yes, Naked Snake/Big Boss is also one of my favorite characters.

And that is probably why I feel personally so deeply disappointed about: 1) "resurrecting" Big Boss via attaching body parts (except that eye), like a Frankenstein, when it is too late to make a difference; 2) spouting off very bad dialogue littered with poor metaphors and a last-second plot development that seemed forced; 3) and all of this just to watch him asphyxiate and die again.

To me, I saw a truly noble character being brought back from the dead to be in a forced, poorly conceived scene where he is presented as an impotent person delivering awkward lines and to just serve as a last-minute replacement for what should have been the hero's (Snake's) death scene. Big Boss deserved better than that.

While playing MGS4, we got attached and sympathized with the tragic hero of the game who was Solid Snake, not Big Boss. And just like in any epic tragic tale, just like in the ancient Greek mythological epics or in Shakespeare's plays, the tragic hero is the one who dies due to circumstances that were beyond his control, not some out-of-nowhere character who had no meaningful part of the story. And this was Solid Snake's final mission, not Big Boss's.

And this brings up my second point.

Why Snake should have actually died at the graveyard: First, whether you like the method or not, the gun-in-the-mouth scene was locked in once shown way back in 2006. Once Kojima shows something heavy like that, he cannot suddenly take that back due to fans' expectation and speculation.

Second, I object to the notion that in Snake's case that killing himself would have been lame or not heroic. In Snake's case, he was notified he would very soon turn into a dangerous threat to all the ones that cared for him and are close to him. Rather than risking his friends actually trying to save him (which might have been dangerous if they were unsuccessful and got infected themselves) only to die of old age soon afterwards, he opted to make sure the FOXDIE threat was absolutely eliminated. Eliminating the host (in this case himself) was the only 100% sure way to stop the threat as revealed to him by FOXDIE's creator, Naomi. So taking his own life is presented as a sacrificial move to ensure his loved ones never come in harm's way, and that stays in tune with Snake's heroic determination and willingness to suffer in the place of others as demonstrated throughout the game.

And all of this ties into one greater point. This could have been the first, truly successful game tragedy in video game history. There is a reason we hardly see any video game tell a heroic tragedy; it is a huge risk since it requires a character that the audience has a tremendous attachment to die and yet still show his journey and actions were moving and heroic. Most games are not in a position to do that, but MGS4 is in the rare, unique position to have a chance in pulling that off. Furthermore, the MGS4 story was closely following the tragic hero epic template in defining Snake's role of the game. So to me, the whole stage was set at the end for Snake to fulfill his tragic hero role.

But instead, we get this weak scene with Big Boss out of nowhere. It felt that Kojima did not have the nerve to finish... to really finish the tragic tale. Instead of powerfully showing the audience the tragedy of warfare and sorrow of future war technology, we instead receive that message poorly through a very awkward dialog scene, and thus the impact of the image is lessened greatly and replaced by this needless and weak attempt of pandering to fans. It is like Kojima to took the safe route in a getting a quick cameo of fan favorite characters for the end, rather than risking a backlash from fans in following through what made sense from a narrative perspective.

I am sorry, but I found the ending to be weak, especially compared to how awesome the rest of the game is. And I guess that is why it really sticks out to me.[/SPOILER]

That being said, MGS4 is still one of the best games ever.

[Bobtheduck]

Edit: Ignore the link unless you want a pretty detailed walkthrough.

[spoiler] Yeah, its a 100 gun fully automatic gun. *unlimited ammo* However to do it, you have to do a quite hard challenge.

*From another site*

Complete the game in Single Player mode on the hardest difficulty using no continues, instigating no alerts, killing no enemies (including Bosses), using no life recovery items, using no stealth suit or bandanna special items. You can have the items in your inventory but they shouldn’]http://romeuy.com/cheats/metal-gear-solid-4-mgs4-walkthrough-with-cheats-and-hints[/url] [/spoiler]

Oh, yeah... Boss extreme is absurd, and I'm still shocked to find people who breeze through it and say "Why isn't it harder?" and getting the big boss rank is something I'm absolutely flabbergasted that people have already gotten it... I mean, it takes a fair amount of memorization, but I guess it helps this incarnation of MGS doesn't fault you for too many saves like at least one of the previous games did.

I'm not nearly hardcore enough to get big boss rank, but this is one game that is good enough that I want to try. I'm gonna start working on Boss Extreme mode soon, but just to beat it, not to get any special bonuses... It's gonna take me a number of playthroughs to actually feel confident enough in even taking on Big Boss ranking.

[Nate]

Ha ha, Yahtzee tore the game apart in his latest Zero Punctuation. That makes me laugh. I checked the comments section to see if the MGS fanboys had started flaming, but not quite yet. Maybe later today. XD

[ShiroiHikari]

How anybody could sincerely tear MGS4 apart is beyond me. XD

[Etoh*the*Greato]

How anybody could sincerely tear MGS4 apart is beyond me. XD

That depends on where the critic is based. Everyone knows snakes don't belong in Alaska.

[Solid Ronin]

That depends on where the critic is based. Everyone knows snakes don't belong in Alaska.

...I'm quoting you in my siggy now.

[Nate]

That depends on where the critic is based. Everyone knows snakes don't belong in Alaska.

He's a British-born fellow who lives in Australia. XP

How anybody could sincerely tear MGS4 apart is beyond me. XD

Because Yahtzee is the kind of person who hates it when games won't be games. In other words, the more cutscenes a game has, the more he hates it.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Generally I tend to side with Zero Punctuation unless fanboyism kicks in. Yahtzee's points are for the most part spot on with the games I've played that he's reviewed, though I often tended to like those games anyway. He didn't exactly hate the game. He said that what it did well it did incredibly well. I'm currently playing MGS1 for the first time and if this game is anything like 4, then he may not be that far off. A lot of the bones I have to pick with the first (And keep in mind, I've been absolutely loving this game. I put games I hate down and I've been marathoning this one) are ones he brings up for 4 with the obvious exception of the cutscene issue.

[Nate]

Well yeah he never said he hated it but his frustration was apparent, especially when he was ranting about how from the time it took him to choose "New Game" on the title screen to his first enemy took 23 minutes. XD I figured I'd post this part of the transcript because it's just absolutely brilliant:

For all its frustrations the gameplay is never flawed enough to be a dealbreaker and if you're prepared to forgive the heavy cutscene-to-gameplay ratio the characters are well-rounded and imaginative enough to keep you interested. But here comes the killing blow, children. Metal Gear Solid is and has always been very badly written in the same way that the world's largest pie couldn't honestly be called a good pie because it's uneconomical and probably wouldn't fit in an oven. So much of the dialogue is redundant and is in dire need of an editor, preferably one armed with waders and pruning shears. I think it's safe to say that if you're not already a fan you're not welcome at the MGS4 party.

And since I hate redundant dialogue so much I won't redundantly say that fans should buy it because if you're a fan you've already bought it, finished it, written a plot analysis guide for GameFAQs and are now hiding behind my house trying to decide which window to break.

[Bobtheduck]

Well yeah he never said he hated it but his frustration was apparent, especially when he was ranting about how from the time it took him to choose "New Game" on the title screen to his first enemy took 23 minutes. XD I figured I'd post this part of the transcript because it's just absolutely brilliant:

Yahtzee is a bit of an arrogant somethingrather... It's obvious which genres he likes, and while his schtick is funny, it's just out there most of the time. I groan at half the things I hear him complain about most of the time, and yeah... Interactive movies apparently aren't his thing, but them being so isn't a bad thing.

I'm not just saying this because of his MGS4 review, as I haven't even watched it. I've watched nearly all of his reviews before that, though. He's just over the top and likes to offend.

[Nate]

He's just over the top and likes to offend.

While I think that's true I don't think he's ever done a review just to offend. Remember he had nothing but good things to say about Portal, another game that was overhyped and he could have very easily trashed it, but didn't. Also for all the crap he gave Bioshock he said at the beginning of the review it was a pretty awesome game and people should buy it.

Also the flaming and drama that was disappointingly absent in the thread earlier? Oh it's there in spades now. XD The best parts are the people angrily crying that Yahtzee is a sellout, that he's an Xbox fanboy (completely forgetting he tore apart Halo 3 as well), and an argument about "This is a fact!" "No it's an opinion!" "It's a fact that it's an opinion therefore making it fact!"

As well as the people who say "He obviously didn't play the game, you don't have to hold the Triangle button!" when he never SAID you have to hold the Triangle button. I guess people hear whatever they want to hear.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

There's a large percentage of the gamer crowd that are starting to turn against the idea of cutscenes, especially after Bioshock. They feel it breaks immersion and hearkens to much to other art forms such as movies, and that gaming needs to come more in to it's own as a distinctive form of story-telling by inventing new and imaginitive ways to make the player active in these cutscenes instead of simply making them sit idly by while the big boys do all the work. The guys who are following this line of though believe that the player should never be so forcefully reminded that he is in fact just the player and not the person because immersion is often what the experience of videogames is all about.

Often I find myself agreeing with these guys, but I also like cut-scenes as a story-telling method. There could definitely be to much of a good thing, though.

[Nate]

I'm a JRPG fan so cutscenes to me aren't particularly irritating. XD

I think it depends on the genre of game. The way Bioshock does cutscenes would simply not work for an RPG. Similarly, I think the way Final Fantasy does cutscenes would not work for Bioshock or Half-Life.

The genre has a lot of sway in what should happen with plot exposition. In a FPS type game, the key is immersion. You're supposed to be taking on the role of this guy, hence why it's first person. Having a pre-rendered cutscene where you're watching the character walk around and do things would break that immersion.

However, compare that to, say, Final Fantasy VII. They're not trying to make you immersed in the role of Cloud. You control him, but you're more or less just an audience member in the grand scheme of things. So watching the character do his own thing without your control is acceptable.

As an aside, this is why I've always firmly been against Link not having dialogue in the Zelda games. I seriously doubt anyone is that immersed in the game and think of themselves as Link. It's more akin to the Final Fantasy experience, so having Link just be a mute guy detracts from that.

ANYWAY I've never played MGS4 (nor do I ever plan to) but if what Yahtzee says is true, and it takes 23 minutes from the time you select "New Game" to the first enemy, that's absolutely absurd. And I'm a hardcore JRPG fan.

Having hour long (or more?) cutscenes is just bad game design, I hate to say it. If you want to make a movie, make a movie...but don't make a game with a five to one movie-to-gameplay ratio. This is why I hated Xenosaga for the record. I think it's probably the only RPG intro movie I've ever skipped.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Bioshock barely has any cutscenes though. =p

It has like... three. Haha. And they're short as well.

And MGS was always known to have cutscenes. Unlike most cutscenes in many video games, Metal Gear Solid's give a looooooot of story and are masterfully crafted. Most people that I know appreciate the cutscenes. They're fun to watch. And quite frankly, MGS has always been more about storyline than actual gameplay, granted the gameplay in MGS4 is a major improvement over the previous titles.

Edit: And he's quite wrong about the tranquilizer gun. Mabye he played on easy mode, though... which I think is lame. XD It's easy cause it's easy!

So yeah, Yahtzee is dead wrong about this game. XD People put too much consideration in his opinion.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

[spoiler]The idea behind Bioshock's cutscenes, though, was that the control was intentionally taken away from the character For the first time you realize that you have no control over your actions and the player is left to watch in shock and horror as he realizes the guy he's been playing was a puppet who simply responds to "would you kindly." They were very dilliberate in when the player could and could not control the character, which was pretty cool.[/spoiler]

[Omega Amen]

ANYWAY I've never played MGS4 (nor do I ever plan to) but if what Yahtzee says is true, and it takes 23 minutes from the time you select "New Game" to the first enemy, that's absolutely absurd.

Nate, you can skip every single cutscene in MGS4, even on the first playthrough. Every single cutscene. Just press Start and select "Skip."

In general, I do not like cutscenes in video games, but I found while playing MGS4 that I did not mind the cutscenes at all and did not take notice how long they were.

That was because in general most were done fairly well and were quite entertaining and did a good job in setting the dramatic context (and therefore provide meaning) of your next play session as Snake. The few that I did not like were not simply done well.

And I think that when most people say they do not like cutscenes, they really mean, "I do not like mediocre/poor cutscenes, and thus, I feel my time is wasted when I am forced to watch them to progress through the game."

I do have comments about this proposed idea of finding the "inherent" and "unique" storytelling method in games that is usually vocalized by Spector and his proteges, like Levine, and frankly, it is mostly criticisms, but that discussion belongs somewhere else.

[Stephen]

[SPOILER]I mentioned this to Jamie the other day...did anyone else catch the whole Ocelot thing? As he dies, he mentions being a mental doppleganger of Liquid...I kinda let that fly by...but then again at the end, Big Boss acts like Ocelot was faking the Liquid thing to trick the Patriots. Is this the case? Or am I nuts? lol. It sounded like he faked the whole arm taking him over bit. They mention him using hypnosis and other means to do this.[/SPOILER]