Zondervan jumps on the manga wagon

[ChristianKitsune]

I am actually excited about this... Seriously..and you guys, this is for a portion of their company called ZONDER Kidz...right? So of course the timeflyz one won't look like a great thing for teens, but you know what? That's okay!

As a Anime Artist who wants to get into the field for drawing Christian Manga, this is an awesome stepping stone! Now parents won't have to fear the Manga industry as much, ne?

And I think we should be more encouraging to our fellow Christians...it will take a bit of time. I can understand why everyone is skeptic, but maybe this will be better?

If you're like me and your SICK SICK SICK of all these bad efforts: stop complaining and start doing something! (Kicks self)

I had to do that because I'm guilty of the same thing.

Hate BORING Christian movies? Than make some.
Read "Rebel without a crew" by Robert Rodriguez and be sure to read his appendix "The Robert Rodriguez Ten-Minute Film School." (Note: There is some language in this book, and he also writes about his experience selling his body to science to raise money for his first movie...which had to do with certain things regarding the body. Still recommended for filmmakers though) Thanks to new technology, some of the technical stuff he writes about seems outdated, but it's a great start. Than read some technical stuff and start making short movies with what you have at home. A DVR video camera, and whatever editing equipment you can find. It's like Rodriguez says: "Do you go to music school and come out the next Jimi Hendrix? NO! You do it by locking yourself in your closet and playing until your fingers bleed. Don't be lazy!"

Want GREAT, GODLY Christian manga? Start making some on your own.
Want Great GODLY Christian anime? Try doing some shorts!

Are you 23, realized this is something you wanna do, but have no practice and feel it's not worth trying with all these people out there who've been doing it since they were 14?

Well, for the answer to that question, I'll have to ask some other witnesses here to speak out and give their advice.

I am also trying to start my own Christian Comic in the mangaesque style... I am not sure if it's cliche' I don't think it is, but who knows?

There really is nothing original out there... XD It's hard to come up with something before someone takes it right from under you nose...

besides.. I think that the "Stereotype" you guys always talk about...about isthe poor kid who isn't a chrisitian, but somehow amazingly becomes a christian overnight...."

however, did you guys forget about the Japanese manga stereotypes? I mean there are the magical girl stories, the buff larger than life heros, or the little boy who suddenly becomes a big hero because he is "the chosen one?"

I don't think it's fair to our fellow Christians to degrade their work...at least they are trying to get out there...and I think we are judging before we actually see what the content will be like.

[The Doctor]

Mave,

It's alot easier for Christian businesses to make money in the entertainment industry than many realize.

For one, the entertainment industry is expected to continue growing in the U.S. (except California...) and the demand for it keeps growing, and the Anime/Manga industry has passed the Billion Dollar mark in the U.S., which means that American Corporations are gonna pay MORE attention.

Solution? Well, for individuals that wanna make their own stuff, I highly recommend the "Mariachi-style" of creativity, as "created" by Robert Rodriguez, where creativity and NOT money is used to solve problems.
I'm currently researching how it can be applied to anime, but for one thing, like Rodriguez says, computers have come ALONG way and now, in Japan, we're moving to the technology were even anime is done on computers and not hand drawn.

That being said, you probably don't wanna spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on the best of the best. So don't. Instead, use what you have and download free ware animation software, like Blender, and use the DISADVANTAGES of the free stuff as an ADVANTAGE (i.e., Rodriguez couldn't afford a GOOD camera stand. Instead he used the worst camera stand he could find that would shake alot. Result? He used it in a way to give his film, El Mariachi, lots of energy so it felt like a big budget action movie. He timed the shakes so that it looked "professional" as opposed to some lackey who can't hold a camera).

Next step? Well, there are many. With the growth of YouTube and the internet, you may wanna risk starting your own site to distribute you own work, like Homestarrunner, or work with a distributer what's already around and running (like YouTube...except you want one where you can make some cash. Personally I'd say only use YouTube as an advertising tool, NOT as your distribution network).
Or, you can try the traditional thing and send it to film festivals across America to get noticed. If enough people like your work and you win enough awards, Hollywood will come calling (God willing). But you may wanna shoot for Christian companies or companies that have a history with Christian films (a.k.a. Disney, NewMarket Films).

Now, for Christian entertainment businesses, I have MUCH to say:
First off, every Christian executive needs to go to the bookstore and study former Disney CEO Michael Eisner and former Disney Studio Chairman Jeffrey Katzenberg.
Love them or hate them, you cannot argue with their records pre-1994. They are the best in the business. Their philosophy? The key to a good movie was to focus on STORY STORY STORY and not money. If you have a strong STORY, it will sell. So focus on that and NOT on how much money you can throw at it. In fact, don't shoot for big blockbusters. Go for singles and doubles: small to medium hits that turn profits cause of their low budgets.

That's what they did when they ran Paramount and they turned Paramount into a Hollywood king, THAN they came to Disney (with Frank Wells) and followed the same philosophy (though they made the mistake of ignoring their anti-blockbuster strategy and it costed them dearly because the big budget stuff sucked. The Lion King and their other animation hits don't count because, back then, animation was VERY VERY cheap to make. That's why Eisner and Katz loved it. Big profits, small costs).

The next thing they need to do is ask themselves "who's our market?" If it's Christians, that's one thing. But if they're trying to impact the entire world, that's another. They need to ask themselves "Does Steven Seagal ever look at the camera and tell us about the way to Buddhism?" No, he doesn't. He merely has his characters respond to the situations around him like a Buddhist would. Therefore, they need to stop the "sunday sermon" movies and create STORIES where there is a Biblical theme, but it's not beating us upside the head. And/or the main characters respond as Christians would.

If you think I'm making this sound easy, well, it's not. But I know what I'm talking about having studied the Hollywood industry, and I SERIOUSLY wonder about these Christian entertainment companies. AT THE VERY LEAST study what the Adventures in Odyssey guys do, or check the water they drink because they've consistently hit the nail on the head for over a decade.

But the MOST important thing of all is to PRAY PRAY PRAY. Entreat the Lord for wisdom and guidance. Seek His help in all things and His wisdom, for you may make your plans, but it's up to God whether they'll work or not.
Everything I've listed I can guarantee 150% WILL NOT WORK if the Lord decides against it.

So work hard, pray hard, and do your best. And pray for me.
I have strongholds in my life and one of them is laziness and lack of commitment. I'm moving past them with these projects I'm working on, and I'll continue to go forward, but keep me in your prayers. And may God be with all of you.

[The Doctor]

Oh, and also I think one reason why people never start is because they're afraid of failure. They have the idea in their head but when they write it out or draw it out, it doesn't work.

You know what? That's ok. Yah, this is your first time doing it so let's face it.
IT'S GOING TO SUCK.

It's going to fail. YOU ARE GOING TO FAIL.
But that's ok. Wrap your mind around this: "Losers never win because they're afraid of failure. Winners win because they keep failing until they win." - Robert Kiyosaki Rich Dad, Poor Dad

So go out there and fail to win. That's the attitude I've taken. I was/am deathly afraid of sucking, but now I go out there with the attitude of "I'm going to fail to win. I'm going to go out there and absolutely and completely suck at what I do until it's right. I'm going to fabulously fail until I"m a winner."

How do we learn to ride a bike anyway? By falling off of it until we get it right.

When asked about why he was one of the greatest basketball players ever, Jordan responded by listing everything he failed at.

SO GO OUT THERE AND FAIL! AND KEEP FAILING AND FLUNKING UNTIL YOU WIN!

[Radical Dreamer]

Now, for Christian entertainment businesses, I have MUCH to say:
First off, every Christian executive needs to go to the bookstore and study former Disney CEO Michael Eisner and former Disney Studio Chairman Jeffrey Katzenberg.
Love them or hate them, you cannot argue with their records pre-1994. They are the best in the business. Their philosophy? The key to a good movie was to focus on STORY STORY STORY and not money. If you have a strong STORY, it will sell. So focus on that and NOT on how much money you can throw at it. In fact, don't shoot for big blockbusters. Go for singles and doubles: small to medium hits that turn profits cause of their low budgets.

That's what they did when they ran Paramount and they turned Paramount into a Hollywood king, THAN they came to Disney (with Frank Wells) and followed the same philosophy (though they made the mistake of ignoring their anti-blockbuster strategy and it costed them dearly because the big budget stuff sucked. The Lion King and their other animation hits don't count because, back then, animation was VERY VERY cheap to make. That's why Eisner and Katz loved it. Big profits, small costs).

The next thing they need to do is ask themselves "who's our market?" If it's Christians, that's one thing. But if they're trying to impact the entire world, that's another. They need to ask themselves "Does Steven Seagal ever look at the camera and tell us about the way to Buddhism?" No, he doesn't. He merely has his characters respond to the situations around him like a Buddhist would. Therefore, they need to stop the "sunday sermon" movies and create STORIES where there is a Biblical theme, but it's not beating us upside the head. And/or the main characters respond as Christians would.

Quoted for truth. I can't tell you how much I wish the majority of animated movies would return to actual good stories, rather than flashy 3D animation and political agendas. As for the last paragraph I quoted, I also agree. This movie came out some time ago..."Time Changer", I think it was called. It was pretty much the pinnacle of cheesy "Christian" entertainment. Not only was the acting nauseating, but none of the characters were likeable, except for maybe one. The main character was made to look totally ignorant, the Christians from the church all acted like jerks...way to witness through entertainment. XD

I think that if you want to get a good message across, it should most certainly be implied through the way the characters act and respond. Certain movies have had very good messages that point towards Christianity, and they're actually good movies. So it's possible, at least. XD

[The Doctor]

For those of you who wanna attend the class, here is a link to Robert Rodriguez' "10-minute Film School". Look forward to you being a graduate like me.

http://www.exposure.co.uk/makers/minute.html

Btw, there are FREE business cards on the web you can get. Just Google "Business Cards". You'll know what I mean.

[uc pseudonym]

The next thing they need to do is ask themselves "who's our market?" If it's Christians, that's one thing. But if they're trying to impact the entire world, that's another.

To be honest, I don't think Zondervan and company have any intention of reaching a market other than Christians. Almost all Christian-focused entertainment businesses are built on this premise because it has been proven that it is successful (sad as that fact may be). And the truth is that most Christians want films with sickening conversion sequences. I may not like this, and anything I write will never include this, but I think it is important to acknowledge the difficulty of the issue.

[The Doctor]

The true difficulty of the issue UC is that the next generation Christians are tiring of these sickening sequences...and they better wake up to that fact.

They want good stories too.

[Shinja]

hey big man let me hold a dollar

[The Doctor]

hey guys,

for those of you who wanna make stuff and would like advice on how to do it, or talk with others of the same ilk, go here http://www.ashgreen.net/phpBB2/index.php

and go to the movies section.

The forum is run by a friend of mine and I'm a mod there. TTYL

[Mithrandir]

Not to derail the train of thought, and not to be mean but you're running a board that tells people about how to make things look good, and you chose THAT color scheme? I can't even read it...



Of course, I'm old.

[The Doctor]

LOL hey I didn't design that forum. It's my buddy's. He runs it. But he's made some movies before and I talked it over with him and decided about trying to get people together there that wanna make movies. (Course, I think why he chose is it is cause he likes dark stuff).

Please forward all complaints about the colorscheme to [email protected]

By the way, Ash told me that if you want to change the color scheme, if you register just log in, go to profile and where it says scheme change it to subsilver.

[Ashley]

Just FYI that Ash isn't me Ash. I got confused for a second, too.

[Telakyte]

I must admit, I'm skeptical (like most here I think) about something done from the Christian retail side. At least initially. I still find that Christian counterparts to popular themes and interests seem lacking. Not because Christian companies aren't capable, but more along the lines that sometimes what we want isn't always necessarily Christian. Odd as that sounds, let's consider that many of our heroes and plenty of Anime shows, though they may show something that happens to correspond with a Christian principle, still contradict the faith in some fashion or another. Whether it be in some form of spell casting which the Savior would probably wish us to personally never attempt, or the slaying of creatures which do not exist, or perhaps the sexual themes hinted/openly displayed in some manga and films.

I'll admit Trinity Blood, my current favorite anime, can't be upheld for it's Godly themes. While the Vatican and such play key roles in the story, I don't really recall any of the characters openly praying. At most they say generic phrases like, "We're all God's Children." Jesus which is a centerpiece of the Church isn't mentioned. And they're priests for the love of bacon!

I think it's just like the concept of playing a game like Battlefield 2 and mixing God with it. It may have some merit, but the idea of (to steal a quote) "fragging for Christ" doesn't seem to fit. It doesn't take away from the fact that playing a 1st person shooter is fun even though at some level it appeals to carnal nature.

While I think Anime has the potential to include Christian themes and perhaps even openly create a Christian title, the difficulty lies in agreement of what is Christian. Some Christians abhor Harry Potter. Others embrace him as though he was Justin Martyr. The faith is full of such division that one Christian anime may have violence and gore (perhaps even tasteful, angels vs. demons etc.) and be considered an offense. The other extreme is to make an anime that resembles a Carebear rerun, thereby alienating all those (including me) that like some action to spice up a plot.

Response longer than I expected oops. o.O

[uc pseudonym]

Long is perfectly fine when you have good things to say. If you make more posts like that you'll get along fine here.

I'll admit Trinity Blood, my current favorite anime, can't be upheld for it's Godly themes. While the Vatican and such play key roles in the story, I don't really recall any of the characters openly praying. At most they say generic phrases like, "We're all God's Children." Jesus which is a centerpiece of the Church isn't mentioned. And they're priests for the love of bacon!

However, that series is really just using Christianity for the imagery and setting, being made by a secular individual only somewhat familiar with the Catholic Church. Wouldn't you find it interesting to have an anime with a similar premise but that actually took the faith of the characters seriously and extrapolated how one might be faithful to God in that kind of environment?

The true difficulty of the issue UC is that the next generation Christians are tiring of these sickening sequences...and they better wake up to that fact.

They want good stories too.

I certainly hope so. Recent happenings have made me immensely cynical about this, however. Publishing agencies (for example) are rarely controlled by people from our generation and they realize that the largest part of their market is parents. At times I despair of them attempting anything significant when they know they can be successful with Chicken Soup for the New Permutation's Soul.

[Majic]

Zondervan's Doing Christian Manga?

Good on them! But this is hardly anything new.

Jack Chick has been doing it since the '70s.

[Nate]

Please do not mention that hate-monger on this site.

EDIT: Besides, manga is usually reserved for comics from Japan. Last I checked, he wasn't Japanese.

[Majic]

Sorry, I suppose it was a rather crass joke.

Then again, that was the closest thing to Christian manga I ever saw when I was a kid.

You don't even want to know how many of those I had shoved in my face back then.

[Nate]

Oh, okay. It was meant to be a joke. XD;; I see now. Curse you, internets, for obscuring meaning behind text!

Sorry, I just get edgy whenever he's mentioned...I'd hate to think that anyone takes him seriously.

[JesusFreak84]

Well, all of us on this site are like Jack Chick's prime targets: RPGers, some Catholics (including yours truly,) etc.

Back on topic, I don't think I'd take this "Christian manga" too seriously. To me, "manga" implies it's from Japan (or at least the Far East.) I don't care about Americans imitating the art style so long as it's done well, but call it something else; don't try and capitalize on what's become a "buzzword" in entertainment.

*Steps off dual soapboxes, though the Chick soapbox is considerably bigger for obvious reasons.*

[Majic]

"Chick, Please"

Sorry, I just get edgy whenever he's mentioned...I'd hate to think that anyone takes him seriously.

Then you'd really hate my relatives.

[Fish and Chips]

Jack Chick. I'm afraid I quite loath him these days. Some people I know used to get their jollies off of mocking Christians based off his work, as if he was somehow representative of the majority of us.

[Mithrandir]

Sorry, I suppose it was a rather crass joke.

Then again, that was the closest thing to Christian manga I ever saw when I was a kid.

You don't even want to know how many of those I had shoved in my face back then.

You have my sincerest apologies. I firmly believe that chic tracts are responsible for more athiests than Christians.

[The Doctor]

LOL I guess I should have explained that the Ash I was referring to WASN'T Ashley.

It's my buddy Ash Green...my resident crazy man who loves burning things.

[ChristianKitsune]

who is Jack Chick and why should we hate him? O.o

[Nate]

who is Jack Chick and why should we hate him? O.o

We're Christians, we shouldn't hate anybody. :p

But as to your question as why we're not fond of him? Well, read his website sometime and it'll answer your questions. To put it bluntly, he's a fundamentalist to the nth degree. He hates Catholics, he says Christian rock is Satanic, he claims D&D will send you to Hell, and of course he says Harry Potter is evil. He is a strong advocate of the "KJV only" position, claiming that all other translations of the Bible are from Satan.

Not only that, but his tracts are filled with glaring historical inaccuracies that even a first-year college student who didn't study would know are wrong, meaning he either a) lies to sway people to his way of thinking or b) is too lazy to pick up a history book and read it.

We shouldn't hate the guy. And I'm not saying he's an evil man, because his heart is in the right place; he's just misguided. And the tracts probably do work semi-decently to spread the word of God, so long as you avoid the tracts that contain his theological propaganda.

Anyway his website is linked to in Majic's post on the last page, so if you really want to see him for yourself, feel free...but looking at his website makes me physically ill (not joking).

[Lochaber Axe]

[quote="1 John 4:1 NKJV"]Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God]

A father doesn't instruct his child by beating them into submission for their faults, but to guide them to the correct path because he loves that child.

[The Doctor]

If that's all Jack Chick is, than why is he in this thread? Did he make a manga?

[uc pseudonym]

No, he was just used for a joke (see post #45).

In any case, I will request that discussion of Jack Chick stop. He doesn't need any more attention than he's already gotten and this is somewhat off topic in any case.

[The Doctor]

Is anyone here at all interested in being a filmmaker or anime writer/director and/or manga author?

[Telakyte]

However, that series is really just using Christianity for the imagery and setting, being made by a secular individual only somewhat familiar with the Catholic Church. Wouldn't you find it interesting to have an anime with a similar premise but that actually took the faith of the characters seriously and extrapolated how one might be faithful to God in that kind of environment?

Well, indeed it is just using the setting. But that's my point. Some of the more appealing aspects of the series is indeed sometimes the violence and also the extreme behavior of a certain characters. I'm not attempting to say Trinity Blood was intended to be somewhat Christian. That's exactly what makes the fiction intriguing.

I understand that Christian morales can be presented, but it's again the principle of what defines "Christian." The term these days is simply to subjective. Hence why the Christian entertainment market suffers from lack of inspiration. It dreads to tread (Ooo nice wording) on anything that might spark too much controversy and face backlash from any assortment of Christian media sources. How many would be alright with the notion of some priest, no matter how outwardly devout, slaying vampires? The gore alone would alienate.