Just some FMA questions...

[onyxmoon21]

I was wondering if anyone could offer me some advice on the subject of Fullmetal Alchemist. I've read the second manga, (I have a hold on the first, but it's still unavailable at the library... gahhh...) watched the first episode of the show, and I'm still unsure what to think. I've heard two different stories from two different sources, one claiming that FMA has a strong underbase of positive Christian elements, and another saying that it actually has a negetive view on religion altogether. Hmmm... From my present point of view, I'd have to side with the latter, but first I decided I'd try getting some outside opinions, because I'm interested in the storyline and don't want to give up so easily.
Okay, so I understand that Ed is an atheist, but does he ever in the series even remotely recant? Is it even hinted at? I don't exactly have a problem with the muthical elements, however I would appreciate any comments on it. Is there a possibility of the alchemy being satanic? What about this crucifixion scene I've heard about? Is it making a stab at Christianity? I understand that the Japanese used crucifixion as a form of execution in the ancient times, however it's possible that they're trying to get a message across. What are your thoughts on this?
I would like some brutally honest answers here, because the possibility of their making a stab at Christianity is a big thing to me. But please, I don't want any tension or backstabbing comments. If you have something mean to say, please keep the hot-headed banter away from this thread--I don't want to be the cause of any problems. I know that I'm asking a lot, but I think it's an important concept. I've read some other threads that tell me these thoughts are also circulating in other people's minds, so I think answering these questions and adding your comments on the subject would truly benefit a lot of people!
Thanks a bunch!

[MasterDias]

As far as Edward being an atheist goes, he mentions it once somewhere around the first chapter, and then never brings it up again. It doesn't have anything to do with the actual storyline. I've always felt people were blowing this way out of proportion.
As far as alchemy goes, I consider it basically the same as the "superpowers" that are present in other manga like Naruto. I suppose Arakawa might have looked in some old medieval history books for some alchemical symbols to use in her manga, but I haven't bothered to research it. You can't clap your hands and create a sword out of rocks or the like so I don't consider what's in FMA anywhere close to "satanic."

As for the crucifixion, I don't remember it completely clearly, but I severely doubt it was intended as a religious stab or anything similar.

[ChristianKitsune]

hey OnyxMoon21 glad to meetcha! welcome to CAA!!

I have seen the entire series of FMA (anime not the manga) and while there are a few dark things..there is really nothing that pops out and says "OOH LOOKEMEE! I AM ANTICHRISTIAN!" Although Ed seems to hate God in the beginning, (and that DOES happen, if someone loses a lovedone, they either grow closer to Him or hate Him. *unfortuneatly* Later however, you will find that he sort of changes his mind.

The first episode made me cringe a bit too..but stick with it, it explains itself. ^_^

Also.. a really interesting Tidbit of info: The English voice of Ed is a Christian (he is kinda made to cuss though) and in fact he is a music leader at his Church in Houston. The voice of Winry Rockbell is also a christian! ^_^ So I think if they don't see a problem with it...then it must not be that bad.

As far as "Christian Undertones" I am not sur eabout that...I think if anyone wants to rationalize something they can find "Christian undertones in anything."

Also, it is kinda important to Keep in Mind that Christ wasn't the only person who was cruxified. (The fact that he died for US and our SINS and that he ROSE from the dead is what is important) The Romans used this as a way to kill murders, and the like...so.. I am not sure if I would take that too seriously in the manga. And I believe that Viz edited that and made it a rock instead (I don't remember seeing the cruxifiction at all in the series).

I hope that helps!

[Myoti]

As for the crucifixion, I don't remember it completely clearly, but I severely doubt it was intended as a religious stab or anything similar.

Interestingly enough, the Viz version of the series...
[SPOiler]...erases the cross Greed was attached to and replaces it with a stone slab, though I don't find that to be much of an issue.[/SPOILER]

There's never anything really 'attacking' Christianity, though. If anything, I think many of the characters keep hunting for ways for 'forgiveness' or to 'atone' for things they've done in the past, especially in some of the most recent chapters (much of it with Scar and Dr. Marcoh).

Later however, you will find that he sort of changes his mind.

Which I wonder about, since the manga is still going and hasn't really made Ed go one way or the other yet. Perhaps more towards him 'maturing,' but that's all I can really think of.

[GrubbTheFragger]

Wow a FMA thread seems pops up like every month XD

[onyxmoon21]

Thanks for the insight, but I'm still unsure. I guess it's really just a question of, "should I keep looking into this, or is it really worth my time?" Gahhh!
But you guys did help, (a bunch!) and I *deeply* appreciate your response. (Whoa! The dude who plays Ed is a Christian? I didn't know that.)
Anyways...
I'd still be grateful for more comments! It'd be a big help, and maybe someday I'll actually be able to make up my mind!! (decisions, decisions.)

[jon_jinn]

i think it's worth the read because of the great plot and interesting characters. as for ed being an athiest, it's mentioned at the beginning but never really touched into later on in the series. it does NOT play a big role in the story whatsoever. as for the crucifixion, i don't remember it very well so i can't really comment on that.

[Tenshi no Ai]

And I believe that Viz edited that and made it a rock instead (I don't remember seeing the cruxifiction at all in the series).

I saw the pic on it when this was announced a while back. They edited it because of it being a touchy subject and all (although I personally don't see a problem with it. I mean, it was the persecution of choice in Christ's time and all. He just made it a special symbol^^) Lots of anime edited out crucifixy-like scenes too, like One Piece and Sailor Moon. Personally, the only time I was kinda touchy with it, was when I watched the X/1999 movie.

In FMA, basically the rock shape was a perfect cross shape, but edited to add more around to (like said above) look more like a slab.

[Myoti]

Thanks for the insight, but I'm still unsure. I guess it's really just a question of, "should I keep looking into this, or is it really worth my time?" Gahhh!

I'd say it's definetly worth a read. As said, there's not TOO much 'touchy' situations in it, and overall it's a great series (though I'm mainly referring to the manga).

[Animus Seed]

As far as "Christian Undertones" I am not sur eabout that...I think if anyone wants to rationalize something they can find "Christian undertones in anything."

"You are the form our sin has taken, and we have to atone for you!"

I'm not rationalizing anything when I see the core of Christianity in that line, am I?

Okay, I realize that *we* can't atone for our own sins. We need Jesus to do that.

At the same time, we see a picture here of Ed (who, yes, is an athiest) trying---unsuccessfully---to atone for his sin on his own. Indeed, the idea that sin has to be atoned for in the first place is a Christian idea. Sure, lots of other anime have repentant characters (Rurouni Kenshin is the most obvious example) but for the most part, repentant characters are former villains who "make up" for their prior evil by becoming good guys]And then he proves it by dying for his brother.[/SPOILER]

[onyxmoon21]

I just have one question about Scar. Is it possible that they're making him out to be a Christian of sorts? Because it sure seemed that way to me, and if that's the case, then his being a crazy serial killer blowing up innocent people (i.e. that poor little girl and her dog) and causing havoc in his wake doesn't seem like a good message to me at all. But of course, I haven't read the whole series, so is it possible that something comes out of this that I'm unaware of.

[Myoti]

I'm thinking that since this discussion is in the manga section, it should be focusing more on the manga itself, which is quite different from it's anime counterpart (including that spoiler bit Animus Seed mentioned). Makes it unfortunate that so few here seem to actually know alot about the manga. =/

I just have one question about Scar. Is it possible that they're making him out to be a Christian of sorts? Because it sure seemed that way to me, and if that's the case, then his being a crazy serial killer blowing up innocent people (i.e. that poor little girl and her dog) and causing havoc in his wake doesn't seem like a good message to me at all. But of course, I haven't read the whole series, so is it possible that something comes out of this that I'm unaware of.

Not really. I always saw him more closely related to some sort of Islam religion (not to the same extremes; just the basis for the race), and the whole reason he goes about killing people has nothing to do with his religion; it has to do with his people:

[SPOILER]Who were all but wiped out during the Ishbalan extermination, including his brother (which is where he gained his alchemical arm).

Also, Scar has recently started to quit killing all the time (except the person who just attacked him recently). In fact, in the most recent chapters, he has about three people traveling with him now, all trying to help each other for different purposes (including Dr. Marcoh!).
[/SPOILER]

[Animus Seed]

Also, the "high-priest" type figure of the Ishbalans condemns Scar's actions; so while he claims he's doing his killings for the god Ishballah, Ishballah's other servants do not approve.

(I personally saw the Ishbalans as more representative of Semites in general; I can write a whole essay on whether Ishballah=YHWH. Though if I do, it will be in the anime forum, because Myoti is right.)

[MorwenLaicoriel]

I think that with both the anime and the manga, there's some sort of "higher power" at work throughout the series but it's never EXPRESSLY stated as to who or what it is (although I've heard the manga has something, but I haven't gotten that far).

The impression I've gotten from the series is that it asks a lot of questions, but kind of leaves the answers up to the watcher. In general, the *themes* are often very close to Christian themes--atoning for your sins, love (and how much you will do for those you love), life and death, etc etc. I wouldn't say it's pro-Christian, but I think it's far from being completely anti-Christian.

As for the explicate use of Christian symbols--I think they're just used to give the series a 'religious' tone, and maybe a bit 'exotic' from a Japanese point of view. I also heard once that showing a character on a cross, or bound as if they were on a cross, etc, is seen by a Japanese person as a symbol of someone who is innocent, but is still being punished. So, the people on the crosses in shows like FMA, Naruto and Sailor Moon aren't supposed to be Christ-figures, but it's not trying to say something against Christianity, either.

[Fish and Chips]

What about this crucifixion scene I've heard about? Is it making a stab at Christianity?

Referencial metaphor, actually, not a et tu Brute. Establishes some background for one of the series' choice selection of antagonists (My, but they've certainly been delt a fair share of those, haven't they?).

[spoiler]Having read far into the Japanese releases of the Manga, it becomes rather obvious that "Father," the creator of the Homunculi, has a God-complex. A little chat is are all it takes to set this in stone:

"...Laughing at humans and calling them fools."
"'Foolish?' I do not think that. Do you humans see a beetle crawling on the ground and think of it as 'foolish?' Even when an insect is struggling, aren't your levels so different that you don't spare any emotion?"

The crusifixion scene is just an anchor point. Father is sending his "Son" Greed pay for his sins with his death. Any parallels, people? This is just to hint at what Father believes he himself is, painting his character for the audience. Wouldn't consider it offensive myself, but some folks might be sensitive to that sort of imagery.[/spoiler]

[onyxmoon21]

Thanks for all your comments, I greatly appreciate them.