Can someone explain this to me please?

[TopazRaven]

Why are some other Christians so convinced anime/manga is 'of the devil?' I mean sure, there is some unsavory stuff in anime, but it's really no worse them most Western entertainment so I just don't get it. I'm tired of people going all, "OMGOSH! You watch Pokemon, Naruto, Yu-Gi-Oh and InuYasha!?!? Those anime support un-Christian messages and worship demons and the occult! You are going to hell if you don't stop watching them and all anime in general!!!!!" Oh really? I had no idea watching a fictinal cartoon was going to bond me to hell.

[MightiMidget]

It could possibly be because anime is tied to eastern mysticism/occultism just due to the culture. Granted, not every anime is going to be about magic, eastern religion, or porn, but a lot, a lot of anime does have some measure of eastern religion just due to it being FROM the east.

Of course, we Westerners have our own issues and are gradually gaining more and more interest in the occult/eastern religions.

Another reason is just that they don't "get" it. Everyone may have their own weird little opinions. =)

[TopazRaven]

I suppose you're right. See...I actually like fantasy magic and find Eastern religion mildly interesting even though I don't believe in it. Just like how I find Greek, Roman and Egyptian mythology fascinating. So I enjoy these themes in anime. This is another thing that tends to get me in trouble with other Christians. Actually, there are a lot of things about me that make a lot of other Christians mad, probably why I haven't been trying very hard to make any offline Christian friends. I find I'm far more accepted here on CAA and by my offline non-religious friends and family.

[TheSubtleDoctor]

I guess it's pretty easy to stereotype something when you don't take the time and effort required to understand it. Most people are just parroting what they have heard that has ultimately been passed down from the always-reactionary movement(s) in evangelical Christianity that say that everything the kids are into is "of the devil." Expect similar treatment if you mention such things are Harry Potter, collectible card games or music.

To be fair to the uninitiated, the history of how anime has been marketed in the U.S. makes it an easy target. ANIME! SEX+ULTRAVIOLENCE=CARTOONS NOT JUST FOR KIDS!!! Thanks, Overfiend and MD Geist. Ah, the 90s. Yeah, that sure put anime behind the ole' eight ball in terms of acceptance from middle America.

Also, many Christians may brand anime as "evil" even if they did understand it more fully, due to strict attitudes about the kinds of media they consume and/or the kinds of ways they spend their time.

[blkmage]

I suspect it's half what TheSubtleDoctor says (video games are evil, rock and roll is evil, drums are evil, D&D is evil, etc.) and the other half is simply because it's foreign. I suspect if you asked a typical Asian Christian in North America whether anime was evil there'd be a lot of "what?".

[TheSubtleDoctor]

I suspect if you asked a typical Asian Christian in North America whether anime was evil there'd be a lot of "what?".

Yeah, so this is an interesting point. I was thinking that the lines of demarcation may have been geographic or denominational, but it hadn't occurred to me that they might be cultural/ethnic (just how much those spheres may overlap is another issue). I'm not sure why because that makes complete sense. The kind of attitude that Topaz talks about definitely comes up a lot in Blanco Land, though. FOREIGN CARTOONS!

[TopazRaven]

Yeah...I've come to the conclusion I'm obviously not a very strict Christian. I certainly do enjoy Harry Potter and music as well. My church in least seems quite accepting of music. They have a band. Music is pretty good to. xD Meanwhile I don't have any idea how they might feel about HP or anime there. I don't know anyone well enough yet to ask them. It could very well be I'm being to touchy/defensive. It's just when someone lectures me or tells me I'm going to hell online it well...makes me feel bad. I can't imagine what it would be like then if someone offline said something like that to my face.

[Wallachia]

I wrote up the file in the included attachment a while ago to clear up someone's misunderstanding about anime in general. It's not perfect, but I kept it since it's quick and easy to reference whenever I see the same argument come up somewhere.

I feel it's closely related to this topic, so give it a read if you wish.

Christians should realize that all kinds of media are made and written by different people, with different religious beliefs and morals. You can't toss a term like, "anime" onto one plate and call it demonic. It doesn't work that way at all.

If somebody is absolutely convinced that the subject in question is evil, maybe they should take a moment to gather what information they really know about it, and whether their conclusion is based on fact or rumor spread by word of mouth.

[Hiryu]

Bah. What nonsense people spew with their uneducated opinions.

[Atria35]

I know someone who refuses to watch anything with sex, swearing or any kind of fantasy magic in it at all. Which rules out a lot of Disney films. It's just that people are wary about being in contact with other religions that .... I don't know. I really don't. I don't understand why people are wary of it when it's not propogating that religion.

Jack Chick tracts don't make me involved in his brand of Christianity. Reading a manga that shows a kid praying at a temple festival isn't going to make me Shintoist.

[rocklobster]

Jack Chick and others like him give Christianity a bad name.

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

I know someone who refuses to watch anything with sex, swearing or any kind of fantasy magic in it at all. Which rules out a lot of Disney films. It's just that people are wary about being in contact with other religions that .... I don't know. I really don't. I don't understand why people are wary of it when it's not propogating that religion.

Jack Chick tracts don't make me involved in his brand of Christianity. Reading a manga that shows a kid praying at a temple festival isn't going to make me Shintoist.

This. So. Much. I am really tired of people who decry anything with magic or another religion as anti-Christian.

On a semi-related side note, are there really still people who think Harry Potter is of the Devil? I mean, I know ten years ago I'd go to a summer camp and most of the kids and adults would be have conversations about how evil Harry Potter is and making false assumptions, but I mean, this last summer camp the director was referencing Harry Potter in the way anyone else would, so I wonder if it's just where I live that the hate has died down or not. I'd assumed it had happened everywhere, but here peoples be talking about people complaining about it.

[MasterDias]

Well, I think most people have largely just realized that there is no point in continuing hating on it. The people who didn't like it a decade ago still probably don't like it, the people who were fine with it haven't changed their opinion, and the people who were indifferent/undecided still don't care or have long since picked a side.

The recent Christian Spotlight review of the final Harry Potter movie does have this large disclaimer at the end when the actual reviewer wasn't as hard line against it as they wanted. I thought this was sort of amusing.

[Cognitive Gear]

Well, I think most people have largely just realized that there is no point in continuing hating on it. The people who didn't like it a decade ago still probably don't like it, the people who were fine with it haven't changed their opinion, and the people who were indifferent/undecided still don't care or have long since picked a side.

The recent Christian Spotlight review of the final Harry Potter movie does have this large disclaimer at the end when the actual reviewer wasn't as hard line against it as they wanted. I thought this was sort of amusing.

Checking out the disclaimer, something stood out to me:

...we are concerned that a small percentage of impressionable and emotionally vulnerable young people will, as a result, become easier prey for the growing number of real witches, Wiccans, neopagans, Satanists or other occultists seeking new initiates and offering these young people not only friendship as outcasts with shared interests...

You mean... that thing that Christians are supposed to do? D:

[Atria35]

What MasterDias said. I'm very sure we had an HP thread in the books section where someone said that Harry Potter was very, very evil. I don't remember that member's name (he hasn't been on in ages), but yeah. If they didn't like it then, they probably still don't like it now.

[TopazRaven]

I know someone who refuses to watch anything with sex, swearing or any kind of fantasy magic in it at all. Which rules out a lot of Disney films. It's just that people are wary about being in contact with other religions that .... I don't know. I really don't. I don't understand why people are wary of it when it's not propogating that religion.

Jack Chick tracts don't make me involved in his brand of Christianity. Reading a manga that shows a kid praying at a temple festival isn't going to make me Shintoist.

My thoughts exactly. Just like watching Yu-Gi-Oh won't suddenly make me start worshipping Ancient Egyptian gods. I don't understand why people can't just see these shows for what they are, entertainment. Most anime does actually have good moral lessons thrown in there.

[Radical Dreamer]

Well, I think most people have largely just realized that there is no point in continuing hating on it. The people who didn't like it a decade ago still probably don't like it, the people who were fine with it haven't changed their opinion, and the people who were indifferent/undecided still don't care or have long since picked a side.

The recent Christian Spotlight review of the final Harry Potter movie does have this large disclaimer at the end when the actual reviewer wasn't as hard line against it as they wanted. I thought this was sort of amusing.

Is it bad that I read the disclaimer for that review in Dolores Umbridge's voice? XDD

[MomentOfInertia]

Is it bad that I read the disclaimer for that review in Dolores Umbridge's voice? XDD

Only in the editor's opinion. XD

[Okami]

I suppose you're right. See...I actually like fantasy magic and find Eastern religion mildly interesting even though I don't believe in it. Just like how I find Greek, Roman and Egyptian mythology fascinating. So I enjoy these themes in anime. This is another thing that tends to get me in trouble with other Christians. Actually, there are a lot of things about me that make a lot of other Christians mad, probably why I haven't been trying very hard to make any offline Christian friends. I find I'm far more accepted here on CAA and by my offline non-religious friends and family.

This may be slightly off-topic and I might have mentioned this before (something tells me I have) but as "everyone" knows, I'm a Bible college student, and I had to take three semesters of a Civilization trilogy. During these classes, I learned everything from ancient Mesopotamia to modern-day history (My notes end around Operation Desert Storm, although we did go further in discussion, past 9/11 events) and we discussed in-depth the cultures and religions of Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, Rome, etc.

In the Literature courses that went alongside these classes, we read the mythology and writings of these people. It's good to know these things in history, and can paint a wider-spread picture of how culture forms (even in our day) as well as give aspects to the culture of Biblical times, and how people reacted to Christianity and interpretations of the Bible different from the norm. It's really interesting stuff when you dig deep enough into it, and have even a light passion to know more!

So, yeah, I call an unwillingness to learn these things because they're 'of the devil' a load of crap. If I'm learning it from a Bible college, then it certainly isn't as evil and bad as people seem to think it is! History is history - we learn from it, we can grow from it...and there's nothing bad about that!

[Nate]

The recent Christian Spotlight review of the final Harry Potter movie does have this large disclaimer at the end when the actual reviewer wasn't as hard line against it as they wanted. I thought this was sort of amusing.

some clearly based upon real occult symbols, terminology, names, and practices

Why do people who are Christian persist in saying things that are clearly and obviously complete and total lies? I mean it's not even like it's questionable, it's completely 100% proven that this statement is a lie. I thought Christians were supposed to be against lying? Or maybe they're of the same opinion I am, that sometimes lying is acceptable in certain situations, but that doesn't seem like the opinion someone who thinks Harry Potter is evil would hold.

[Cognitive Gear]

Why do people who are Christian persist in saying things that are clearly and obviously complete and total lies? I mean it's not even like it's questionable, it's completely 100% proven that this statement is a lie. I thought Christians were supposed to be against lying? Or maybe they're of the same opinion I am, that sometimes lying is acceptable in certain situations, but that doesn't seem like the opinion someone who thinks Harry Potter is evil would hold.

I think that this falls into the category of ignorance, rather than blatant lying. Lying requires that you know what you are saying isn't true, right?

[Rusty Claymore]

I think that this falls into the category of ignorance,

That. In my experiences the people who believe a/m is from the devil were just told that, having never watched an anime nor read a manga themselves. And to those who have and still hold that belief, I string out the long list of other mediums that have portrayed lewdness and evil just as much as anime/manga have been used for. I also recommend a series that is actually good, and give them pointers on which cover arts are safe to avoid. XP

[Yamamaya]

@Wallachia.

A truly great read. That summarized quite well the arguments against those who despise anime because they lump it all together into one little box.


As for my own thoughts, people fear that which they do not understand, especially certain Christians. For these certain Christians, there is an intense desire to label things as good or evi. It is either black or white, no shades of grey. In addition, their general reactionary attitudes make them far more prone to label new, odd, or foreign things as being evil.

Why is anime given this label?

Well for one, think about the most well known anime series in the states, Pokemon. This series created a mass amount of fundamentalist backlash for relatively silly reasons. However, this series created a certain mindset in the eyes of certain fundamentalists. "Anime? Oh that must be that evil Pokemon stuff!" Not to mention the fact that anime become notorious in the 90s when ignorant people would place hentai on the same shelves as Pokemon.

[Kaligraphic]

I watched a Harry Potter movie, and instantly became obsessed with the possibility of achieving some personal power or self-realization through enchantments, incantations, divination, conjuring spirits, curses, supposed healing, worship, etc.

So I went to my local charismatic-type church for some good old-fashioned blessing, prayer, prophecy, exorcism, devil-rebuking, faith healing, worship, etc. They were sad when I told them I came for the Harry Potter classes. (j/k)


On a more serious note, I think the shelving issue Yamamaya brings up probably produced a lot of surprising stories, and helped push the idea toward critical mass. One of the other elements, though, is that not all of the ignorance is accidental. There is a distinct tendency within the modern church to embrace scare preachers with stories of the outlandish and frightening, especially as regards the influence of evil in the world. There are quite a few people who make up scary stories about what goes on in the world, and then support themselves by visiting various churches to tell people what's "really going on out there."

Now, some of these people may have genuinely found themselves in over their heads, but a lot of the material that ends up distributed is recycled and flat-out wrong or even deliberate lies. (For instance, Bill Schnoebelen's famous assertion that Dungeons and Dragons material contained accurate instructions for conducting satanic rituals - and that he was personally consulted to make sure that this was so.) Likewise, any alteration of the source material that makes it more dramatic tends to be accepted pretty easily.


Okay, now I'm going to go another level deeper. Fundamentally, it's a question of whether we adopt a positive-dominant or negative-dominant worldview. that is to say, when clean and unclean, holy and unholy touch, is the clean made dirty, or the dirty made clean? Is the cleansing that we receive from Christ something that we have to protect from even the knowledge of dirt, or is it something that spreads out from us, changing the world as we interact with it?

If the truth itself is frightening and harmful to you, you won't want to verify what you are told, for fear of what you might learn. Unfortunately, it's this very tendency, this understandable fear, that can make honest communication impossible - or at the least, difficult.

[Psycho Molos]

This. So. Much. I am really tired of people who decry anything with magic or another religion as anti-Christian.

On a semi-related side note, are there really still people who think Harry Potter is of the Devil? I mean, I know ten years ago I'd go to a summer camp and most of the kids and adults would be have conversations about how evil Harry Potter is and making false assumptions, but I mean, this last summer camp the director was referencing Harry Potter in the way anyone else would, so I wonder if it's just where I live that the hate has died down or not. I'd assumed it had happened everywhere, but here peoples be talking about people complaining about it.

Arella (she's too busy to come here these days, it's complicated) would be one of those that think Harry Potter is bad even though she enjoyed Shuffle! and Ah My Goddess.. hmmm :/

Just like watching Yu-Gi-Oh won't suddenly make me start worshipping Ancient Egyptian gods.

By the power of Ra!!

[Atria35]

Arella (she's too busy to come here these days, it's complicated) would be one of those that think Harry Potter is bad even though she enjoyed Shuffle! and Ah My Goddess.. hmmm :/

Well, Ah! My Goddess has angels, not wizards, so.....

[Yamamaya]

Arella (she's too busy to come here these days, it's complicated) would be one of those that think Harry Potter is bad even though she enjoyed Shuffle!

Lol wut.

That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. Shuffle involves quite a lot of fanservice and demons and gods just hanging out and chillin.

It's also based on an H-game.

@Kali.

I can personally attest to this kind of mindset. I know people like this. Those that embrace the fear mongers and believe that somehow something as simple as Pokemon is a Satanist conspiracy.

[bobmonkeys]

This thread actually reminds me of my own mother. She's completely like that.

[AnimeGirl]

I laughed at the Pokemon part. There's no religion or magic in there at all. Sure, there's the Pokemon "evolving" but that's more like a "level up" due to the fact it's based on a video game. Anyway....

Yeah, lots of people just don't "get" anime. It's true there's a lot that deal with magic, violence, other religions, and blah blah blah...! But there are some that don't. "Anime" is nother more than animation from Japan. That's all. And seriously, anime can be about ANYTHING. I do admit, there's probably anime one should stay away from, but that doesn't mean ALL anime in general. There's some bad and some good, and whatever you watch is between you and God. So unless there's a particular anime He tells you not to watch, okay then. But I don't think it means all anime. As an artistic person, I believe it can be used for good. It all depends on who's writing it.

Anime is a tool. The wielder determines whether it becomes bad or not. And it's upon the viewer's convictions whether or not to continue or drop a series.

- Kokoro's "2 cents" ^.^

[Atria35]

I laughed at the Pokemon part. There's no religion or magic in there at all. Sure, there's the Pokemon "evolving" but that's more like a "level up" due to the fact it's based on a video game. Anyway....

Considering how that happens, you could actually liken it to puberty in humans, or the changes that bugs go through during their life cycles (from pupa to larvae, etc, where they get completely different features and characteristics). It's nothing like evolution in the theory of evolution, so... yeah.