Basic Writing

[Lochaber Axe]

Hello potential writers, this tutorial is meant to help you with the basics of prose and poetry. Do you have problems with grammar, ideas, or sentence structure? Then do ask and I will answer it in do time. If you are a poet then I personally cannot help you since that is not my expertise, but I will find another to answer your questions.

For the experienced writer, this thread can be used to help the beginning writers and to get to know what problems they have literary-wise so as to aid them in training themselves to becoming better writers or poets. This is one of the gifts of writing, no matter how experienced you are you will always learn something new with each time you help the potential harvest of writers. I would be pleased if you would give what help you can.

That is the reason for this thread, to help you become better writers or poets. Ask and answers will follow. As a note, please do not post stories here. Excerpts from stories are allowed, however.

EDIT: Guidelines

1. When you are answering a question: in the Title, write the question and the asker. Example: How do you properly paragraph? - Somebody

2. Before you answer the question: write whether it is prose or poetry, skip a line, and then answer.

If you have any problems with these guidelines, then please tell me this or of your thoughts of what else to put as guidelines.

Thank you.

[Taslin_Jewel]

Oh, yay! Axe is giving us writing tips! I need them.

Okay, my problem is with ideas. Not lack of ideas; I get lots of them. My problem is getting them down on paper. For instance, I might have this brilliant idea at school, but by the time I get home, I've forgotten it!

Any tips? I really want this problem solved....

[Lochaber Axe]

Alright, the best way to get those ideas on paper is to make it short and sweet. Make a synopsis or summary for your idea, put your ideas into an outline, or find some other way to write your ideas on paper and then do it.

The three things that you need to write on paper is this: Plot, characters, and Conflict. Why conflict? Because if the idea has little opportunity for conflict (person vs nature, person vs person, or person vs self) then you might as well just forget the idea. A story without conflict is not a story.

[cbwing0]

I don't do a lot of fiction writing, but I can offer my advice for academic writing; so, if anyone has questions about that, feel free to ask.

[Lochaber Axe]

Thanks CB. Your help in academic writing would be very much appreciated since I really do not want to touch that subject much. The less reports or papers I do, the better.

[SwordSkill]

i'll be pursuing my Master's degree in Creative Writing after another year or so, so hey, if no one would mind, i'd also like to take advantage of this thread and impart all that I've learned from the undergrad CW courses i've taken /am taking (or whatever I remember anyway XD).

a tip for beginning writers: focus first on quantity, not quality. you should be able to write first before you can be able to write well. like Taslin Jewel said, you could have a million ideas bombarding your brain every day, but the real test of your mettle is whether or not you can put them down on paper. so if you've got an idea in your head, lousy or brilliant or anything in between, write it down. an idea in your head will never count as a story until it's on paper.

oh yeah, if anyone needs any help when it comes to undergrad-level (or lower) term papers in literature, don't hesitate to ask. XD that's all i've been doing for the past three years.

[Omega Amen]

Although I will probably concentrate more on math tutoring, as an engineer, I have written technical documents (e.g. manuals, laboratory/project reports). So I can help in that area a little bit if needed.

[Lochaber Axe]

Well since there are alot of volunteers already, I will setup the guidelines for this tutorial. All guidelines from this post onward will be added to the first post.

1. When you are answering a question: in the Title, write the question and the asker. Example: How do you properly paragraph? - Somebody

2. Before you answer the question: write whether it is prose or poetry, skip a line, and then answer.

If you have any problems with these guidelines, then please tell me this or of your thoughts of what else to put as guidelines.

Thank you.

[true_noir_chloe]

>>Okay, my problem is with ideas. Not lack of ideas; I get lots of them. My problem is getting them down on paper. For instance, I might have this brilliant idea at school, but by the time I get home, I've forgotten it!

Any tips? I really want this problem solved....<<Taslin

I found that if I keep a notebook or legal pad with me at all times then I can use that for jotting down ideas as they come. And, don't forget to title above whatever you write, so that when you get home you don't forget why you wrote that.

Since you have ideas which come to you at school, you might have paper readily available to you. Your first writing only has to come fast and freely, don't worry about grammar or structure until you're at home and can spend time on the first draft. But, like Swordskill said, you have to just write, not well, just write first. When writing dialogue, keep it fast and simple, like: John: lalalala Jane: bababa You get what I mean?

I've lost a lot of work and pieces of writing through the years, and have found that I title and file everything now. I also scribble down sketches of what my characters look like if it helps. And then, whatever has to do with that book or script I keep in the same folder - photos, diagrams, contacts, references and any writing, all go in the folder for that story. I find it especially helpful for scripts.

So, tip one: Keep a little legal pad or notebook always with you.

Hope it helps, Taslin.

[Gypsy]

So, tip one: Keep a little legal pad or notebook always with you.

[size=84]I second this. I have odd things like restaurant placemats, napkins, and receipts that I've scrawled things on when I get sudden ideas. However, these are easy to lose (and get mistaken for trash), so a small notebooks dedicated to sudden inspiration is an excellent tip.
[/size]

[Mave]

I'm kinda curious. Is there a certain format in writing poetry? At the first glance, poetry looks like a jumble of words but I'm starting to notice some patterns. Are there standardized poetry patterns or techniques out there? Or is it "anything goes"? Thanks!

[Icarus]

I'm kinda curious. Is there a certain format in writing poetry? At the first glance, poetry looks like a jumble of words but I'm starting to notice some patterns. Are there standardized poetry patterns or techniques out there? Or is it "anything goes"? Thanks!

Both, actually.

Simply, a line of poetry ends where you want it to. This can be where the meter ends, or you want to emphasize a point.

The meter of a line is how many feet it contains. What is a foot, you ask? It is generally a pair, but sometimes a trio, of syllables that is repeated along the line. Not the syllables themselves, but the placement of the accent.

With this form, there is a discernable cadence to the poetry, and you notice when the flow is changed. Occasionally, the author will tweak it slightly for variety, but major shifts in the pattern aren't much appreciated.

Then you have haiku. Seventeen syllables on three lines, 5-7-5.

And then you have the "Anything goes" section, free verse. As the name implies, you can do what you will. Abscond with the cadence, ignore the rhyme scheme, whatever. I think you'd want to keep a rather steady cadence, but in this form, it is unnecessary.

I think most of what you've seen is bound verse (meters and such), if you've noticed a pattern.


And therein lies distilled all my knowledge of the matter. Hope it helps, or at least answers the question.

[YesIExist]

I'm kinda curious. Is there a certain format in writing poetry? At the first glance, poetry looks like a jumble of words but I'm starting to notice some patterns. Are there standardized poetry patterns or techniques out there? Or is it "anything goes"? Thanks!

poetry

I took a class in poetry, and there are many different kinds.

Here's a good link.

http://www.shadowpoetry.com/resources/wip/types.html

[Mave]

That sounds pretty complicated! *has more respect for poets and writers* Thanks for the link and explanations, they're VERY helpful! XD Wish me luck trying to write....erm well.

[wiggins]

I'm just curious, and maybe this doesn't belong here, but um... what makes writers write? And how do they get ideas?

And more on topic, I have difficulty expressing movement...it always sounds corny somehow. For example: The leaves rustled as the wind swept through them." Maybe corny isn't the word...It just souns so trite? Maybe? I can put a definite finger on the word...

I am interested in writing, but what would I write on, and why would I write?

[Lochaber Axe]

I'm just curious, and maybe this doesn't belong here, but um... what makes writers write? And how do they get ideas?

Like any art, the meaning for it is for expression. It could be expression of an emotion, an idea, or even a hope. Thinking on what you want to say helps with ideas... ^^

And more on topic, I have difficulty expressing movement...it always sounds corny somehow. For example: The leaves rustled as the wind swept through them." Maybe corny isn't the word...It just souns so trite? Maybe? I can put a definite finger on the word...

Your having difficulties because you're not putting it into your own terms. How many times have you read "The leaves rustled..." and the like? Put the image of real swaying leaves into your mind... now write how you envision it. Describe everything, the least minute moment or object could lead to huge breakthroughs in your story. Use discretion of course, readers don't want to sit through 20 pages of nothing but description of a cactus thorn.

I am interested in writing, but what would I write on, and why would I write?

Now this relates to the reason that I bolded all those yous. This is your expression, your ideas, and your story. Write want comes to your heart and mind, leave nothing to discourage you, and tell us what you want to show us. We can only help as much as we can.

Driving a car, riding a bike, flying a plane... one must first get behind the controls to learn. This references are used so many times that its tiresome, but it is want you need to remember. To be a writer you must first... well... write.

[JediSonic]

A story without conflict is not a story.

Once upon a time there was a cute little girl and she was dancing and it was cute. The end.

Wow, you're right!

[true_noir_chloe]

I'm just curious, and maybe this doesn't belong here, but um... what makes writers write? And how do they get ideas?

We had a thread in the writing section awhile ago, which asked the question, "Why I Write?" Most of the writers who have been here awhile answered why they wrote and they even had some tips, I believe, within that thread. You might be interested to take a look at it. Please excuse my bad writing at the beginning; but, it gets better.

http://www.christiananime.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2843

Ideas for writing come from the world around you and then from the thoughts within your mind. Haibane Shadsie is a great person to read posts from, because she's an observer. I believe part of the make-up of being a good writer is being a good observer. When you write fiction you're bringing human beings that you've created to life.

I also think writing is a calling to some extent. I was told by a Pastor once, that he knew he was called to be a Pastor because he loved to study the Word of God and loved to research and study and read for hours. He said if he didn't have that desire then he probably wasn't called to be a Pastor. If all he wanted was the attention and admiration of a Pastor he probably would not have a calling, rather only a want for the benefits. He said your calling is shown by what you tend to lean toward and desire.

If you feel led to be a writer then you'll be 1. a reader, 2. an observer of human nature 3. You write for hours, or at least every day, and 4. a lover of the humanity around you.

The last one I mentioned is how you'll know you're called to be a Christian writer. I've read many novels by new writers who obviously were not lovers of the humanity around them.

It's also good to have some ability in basic English structure and grammar.

If you only want to write because you've seen others do it and you want the benefits, i.e. attention or accolades you think will be showered upon you, then you're not called to be a writer, at least IMHO. Writing is work and it's only done when you actually do it.

I hope that made sense.

[Mave]

Alright, now I have another question, something similar to my previous poetry question. I saw UC mentioning 'prose' in another thread. Is that a term for a short story? How long should a story be, in order to call it a novel? Any general categorizations for stories? Just wondering coz I trying to help myself decide on what I should try writing.... I'm thinking of writing something short first.

[Lochaber Axe]

Alright, now I have another question, something similar to my previous poetry question. I saw UC mentioning 'prose' in another thread. Is that a term for a short story?How long should a story be, in order to call it a novel? Any general categorizations for stories? Just wondering coz I trying to help myself decide on what I should try writing.... I'm thinking of writing something short first.

There are two types of basic literature: Prose and poetry. Prose is just a generalization saying that the work is in sentence form. Your post is prose taking in that context. You understand?

A novel mostly is WAY longer than a short story, yet it doesn't have to be a thousand pages. Mostly, a novel has a complex plot centered around these four stages: Introduction, Exposition, Climax, and Resolution. A lot of the time, these stages are represented as a line graph or something like that, which creates a small mountain persay. The introduction is level but as you go into the exposition, you start to rise upwards in intensity until you reach the most climatic and intense point in the story (the climax) and then drop steadily in intensity to the end of the book. If this is confusing, I do hope the others will clarify what I am talking about.

Generalizations for stories? I would guess you are talking about genres, well, mostly just check a library and see how they are grouped. I will come on later and unless no one else has answered then I'll post what I know of them.

[true_noir_chloe]

Alright, now I have another question, something similar to my previous poetry question. I saw UC mentioning 'prose' in another thread. Is that a term for a short story?How long should a story be, in order to call it a novel? Any general categorizations for stories? Just wondering coz I trying to help myself decide on what I should try writing.... I'm thinking of writing something short first.

Loch is correct. According to Webster's, prose is, "the ordinary language people use in speaking or writing." So, anything you write in way of communicating, is prose.

Now, in regards to length: A short story can be anything from 150 to 10,000 words long. At least, most short story magazines will not accept anything over 10,000 words for publication. Novels are anywhere between 50,000 to 150,00 words long. Again that is in regards to what most publishers would buy. Of course, if you're J.K. Rowling you can write as many words as you want and not worry about an editor coming along. A novella is anything between the short story and novel in length. But, most novella's are around 20,000 to 50,000 words in length.

Mave, I agree with Loch, if you want to know about genre's I'd have to say go to any library and walk around to see the myriad of genres in the fiction section. If you want to write non-fiction then that is writing anything that is based on reality or fact. Magazine articles, newspapers, memoirs, and autobiographies, are all non-fiction.

If you keep a journal, that is writing and that's usually a good place to start.

Since you want to write something short, is it fictional? Then I think writing a short story is a good place to start.

As always, feel free to pm me any questions if you need something more specific.

[Lochaber Axe]

I was just wondering on everybody's opinion on writing using he said/she said dialogue. I myself limit this in my writing, but I was just wondering how you all do dialogue.

[true_noir_chloe]

A quick example:

"Movement," I told Loch, very assured of myself.

"Movement, you say?"

"Yes," I told him, knowing I didn't want to repeat it any further. "He said/she said is just a bunch of talking heads with no movement."

"What do you mean - movement?" Loch scratched at his chin and pondered. A pipe slung low on his bottom lip and I wondered to myself, "Isn't he too young to smoke?"

The room where we sat and discussed dialogue was square, no light, gray - basically, a box.

Loch stood. "I don't know what you mean by movement."

"It means you can see the two people actually talking in your dialogue."

"Humm," Loch was ready to leave the room. "I don't get it."

"Is our discussion over?" I asked, not sure how'd he leave a room with no door. This was, basically, only a box on CAA. But, it had become a real place when we showed movement.

"I'll remember that," Loch stated, and the conversation ended - just like that. Puff, he was gone as quickly as he had appeared.

I stopped typing and looked over what I had written as Loch sat in this make-believe box. "Yes, Loch, movement is what makes dialogue bring the reader into the conversation. If there is no movement, then the reader will only see a couple of talking heads and won't see real living, breathing, human beings conversing."

He was gone before I could finish my speech. Ah well, at least he had left the pipe. I picked it up and took a long, vanilla-flavored drag. The tobacco was sweet.

Dialogue is movement, Loch. He said/She said can only be done for around three times in a row, and that's when you have action - or very quick dialogue. Lots of stuff is happening like so:

"He's coming," she said.

"It's too soon," he said.

"What do we do?" she asked.

"I don't know, it's too soon..."

Ahhhh, that dialogue will need movement soon, or we'll all regret when he said/she said comes along any more than three times in a row.

[skynes]

Directed towards anyone who does fiction that can help me.

People who have read my story: Legacy of Numach, have said to me that bits of it seem very cheesy, other bits are unrealistic.

Though I've tried to keep it as realistic as I can I still have problems with some bits. any help?

[true_noir_chloe]

The best cure for getting out of the cheesy, trite, or unrealistic slump, is to read good literature. Watch how good writers accomplish a fresh voice. Read the newspaper and listen to people talk, take a class on something new, always be learning. The cheesy stuff comes from not opening your mind to anything new. A lot of times we watch shows and then think we can just make up a new idea. New ideas come from fresh minds. Fresh minds develop when they're nurtured with information - good information and new information.

When I read trite, overused stories I can pretty much guess this person doesn't read anything other than comics or they watch a lot of T.V. Education is the stepping stone to new ideas. I'm always learning new stuff. As you grow as a person you will grow as a writer. My advice is feed your mind... constantly.

Here's a good writing practice to try and massage your creative thinking cap:

1. Write a list of what ifs, i.e., What if my dog spoke to me? Write down five "what if" questions, and then write a few paragraphs to answer your "what if" question. Pick the "what if" question you liked the best and write a short little story about that. It should begin to jump start your mind in thinking in a new direction.

Hope you the best, Skynes.

[Zedian]

I certainly couldn't say it any better than what Chloe just said. Education is at the upmost wing of importance of anyone's life. The more you learn, the more valuable a person you become as well. Being open to anything will certainly give you a good sense of how to convey a message further. You can also implement several subjects into one writing -- deepening them with alot of information giving a greater sense of realism.

And also try to devise new ideas -- if you follow too much of a favorite writing you are merely modeling it after something someone else did. There is nothing wrong with inspiration but creativity and especially originality will always take you further.

[skynes]

I'm not following any kind of actual writing. My outlined story is based on a few different shows - Agility and Stealth of Aliens, cloaking device of Predator, Spiderman TV Series' witty humour. The rest is what I'm making up.

You could say quite a bit of it is Biblical based, things like the pre-flood ppl being intelligent, the flood, sin consuming and destroying etc.

The big thing I'm trying to do is not have this one of those sarcastic: I NEVER wuda seen that coming... type stuff. Maybe have it a little more Final Fantasy in that you just won't know what'll happen next!

[TwilightApostle]

I don't mean to sound harsh or anything, but the first thing you might want to do is get away from those comparisons. If YOU can say that your story is like Predator or Aliens, then the reader will find it that much more obvious. It sounds like you have an earnest story, but you've injected too much of someone else's ideas into it. My advice: finish what you're working on now, but don't show the rest to anyone. Consider it practice for the story that's inside your head. Use this story as a template for what to do/what not to do. After you're finished, go back and look at the things that worked and those things that didn't work or were taken directly from other sources. Doing this will give you a chance to refine what you've done, and on the next pass it will be more believable, simply because you will own it more.
Granted, this takes time and an incredible amount of patience, but it will pay off eventually.




Twilight Apostle
-PANDA ATTACK!!!!-

[skynes]

Go read my story if you haven't already. It's in the Writings area. It'll help explain what I mean.

When I mentioned Aliens and Predator I was NOT reffering to major story elements.

The main character is a human/dragon hybrid. the idea came from mixing the speed and agility of the Alien the whole running on walls stuff with the cloaking device of the Predator. Numach came out totally different to EITHER of those, but they were the inspiration for bits of the character.

[true_noir_chloe]

Skynes, I left you a note at your story. Kokoro has offered free editing if you'd like to ask her. I believe she might have an opening. I honestly think you need to work on researching what you're writing about - reading - and then keep writing and working at it. I did like your idea and I didn't think it was like Aliens or Predator. You probably shouldn't even make that comparison, because you're right, that has nothing to do with the story element. It reminds me more of Blue Seed, actually.

Okay, back on topic. This is a writing tutorial and if anyone has questions regarding the elements of writing, please feel free and ask.