CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

I mean, yes, it is a great movie, but should it really hit cult status?

...I'd say yeah. Think about the concept. Its original and very thought provoking. A future where we are farmed by robots while we THINK we are living real lives whereas infact these lives are just false realities. Its a ver dark plot...

I thought the first one was mind boggling. Still is--the second and third ones had all the pizazz of the first but really lacked the same mind-blowing can-you-believe-it-what-if-it's-real shocker of a plot. And considering when it was first released there was not nearly the same amount of hype--everyone was more like "Matrix? Huh?"--I'd say the first one is worthy of cult status. And look how it changed television: everything from spoofs to rip-offs of bullet time is tribute to it.

bah the matrix would have been the coolest cult movie ever had they left it one movie. now the top one is still "chain reaction"

I agree...the first one was revolutionary, but the sequels were not. If they had never made the sequels, then people would have a lot more respect for the concept; then again, the producers would be a couple hundred million dollars poorer.

The Matrix is a cult film...? I thought everybody knew about The Matrix o_O Maybe I'm missing the point here...*walks away*

ShiroiHikari wrote:The Matrix is a cult film...? I thought everybody knew about The Matrix o_O Maybe I'm missing the point here...*walks away*

I agree.

Look up the definition of the term "cult film"

Army of Darkness, UHF, and most recent Office Space have been deemed cult films. Why? Because they bombed in the Box Office and over time have gained popular stature and value.

Matrix was a smash hit from the beginning and everyone heard the word "matrix" in every bathroom across the nation the first week. (exaggeration)

Such a great hit,

there must be an aspect about the Matrix that appeals to the majority...what that aspect is i can't say since i'm not one of its fans. XD

the concept itself actually isn't original. this entire business about our current existence merely being a "dream" of "another" us in another reality had been thought of and written by philosophers like Plato and Zhuang Zi centuries and centuries and centuries ago. i admit that exhibiting the concept in a movie is pretty original, but really, the concept itself is already a millenium or so old.

Also, there's something called the Matrix in the Shadowrun tabletop RPG, which has been around for some...15 years maybe.

I think that it is true that the Matrix is far overrated. The philosophy is not that wonderful, and though the first movie was innovative in its cinematography (at least in the US), it isn't as grandiose as everyone makes it out to be. It's funny because I was talking with someone here at lunch about how no one likes Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and everyone loves the Matrix. I think Crouching Tiger has much superior fighting sequences, plot line, and nearly everything else. The Matrix ended up an Existential mess (if that, it got so muddled) of show, all for the sake of the God of Hollywood: "Cool."

I'm actually not that passionate about this as it seems. I did think the first was alright.

" wrote:...how no one likes Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and everyone loves the Matrix.

I liked Crouching Tiger...o_O

Most anime fans do like Crouching Tiger, from my experience, but non-anime fans (which is the vast majority of people I know) really don't like it at all. Maybe it is just the people I know, but everyone I've watched it with except for my brother has really hated it.

Crouching Tiger was an ok movie, but the "wire work" was too far over the top. What they did with the original Matrix movie was to make the wire work look believable.... had the jumping from roof-top to roof-top in CTHD looked more like some of what they did in the Matrix, or the kind of stuff you might see in one of the Animes, then I would have liked it better. As it is though, it looked far too fake for my taste.

madphilb wrote:Crouching Tiger was an ok movie, but the "wire work" was too far over the top. What they did with the original Matrix movie was to make the wire work look believable.... had the jumping from roof-top to roof-top in CTHD looked more like some of what they did in the Matrix, or the kind of stuff you might see in one of the Animes, then I would have liked it better. As it is though, it looked far too fake for my taste.

madphilb, I am not sure if you know, but in case you didn't, the Matrix and CTHD both had the same martial arts choreographer, Yuen Woo Ping, who is probably most respected in his field of martial arts choreography.

The "floating" wire work in CTHD was a decision made by the film's director, Ang Lee, to be faithful to Chinese martial arts legends and the book the film was based on. So, yes, "fake" when compared to reality, but actually quite "true" to the source of the material. CTHD actually featured very well known martial arts actors who actually had athleticism and talent, and the martial arts forms were executed very well. In martial arts fights, CTHD had one flaw in that Ang Lee was not able to convince his first casting choice of Jet Li to take the role of the master Liu Bei, who frankly would have been perfect considering the roles that Jet Li played in the past.

As for the Matrix (first movie), I had a hard time appreciating any of the fights mainly because it was obvious to me the special effects were serving as crutches for the actors' lack of athelticism and experience in martial arts. The "less fake" wire work was actually a very watered down version of what Yuen Woo Ping wanted the actors do initially (from what I heard). As for the Matrix's so-called philosophy, like SwordSkill said, this is really not new or refreshing in my opinion. However, I thought it was a decent movie.

What Matrix did have was "style," which frankly reminds me of the "cool style" anime I have seen. I agree that the Matrix had "style," and thus why it became incredibly popular in our "cool image"-oriented culture. Of course, "style" or "cool" is not going to support a trilogy very well and apparently that is what a lot of people think now. Ironically, the Wachowski brothers also wanted to feature Jet Li to beef up the fighting, but they offered so little money to him that it was quite insulting considering his caliber as a martial arts actor. (I have never seen the later two Matrix movies, so I really cannot comment on those.)

Yes, I took Chinese martial arts in the past, and I have seen many Hong Kong martial arts films. IMHO, CTHD is one of the best martial arts films since it had great action and a solid plot (a rare sight in Hong Kong martial arts films). I only consider Jet Li's and Yuen Woo Ping's (these names keep popping up) films "Fist of Legend" or "Once Upon a Time in China 2" to possibly have better fight scenes (plots in both are mediocre though).

I better be quiet now and let others keep this thread on topic....

Umm... Matrix was never a film of "cult" status... yeah.

*grins in embarrassment*

whoa, I guess I opened up a can of worms here! What I meant by cult status is a cult following, such as Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, etc.

I've only seen the first one (and from what I've heard, I'll be happier leaving it at that) and when you start looking into the details, the variety of the cultural derivations and smart little allusions are pretty cool. There are some really interesting references in seemingly insignificant lines. That's what I like about it, that and the general idea.

I think that the matrix trilogy will be seen in years to come as a classic trilogy, like Star Wars.

Omega Amen wrote:madphilb, I am not sure if you know, but in case you didn't, the Matrix and CTHD both had the same martial arts choreographer, Yuen Woo Ping, who is probably most respected in his field of martial arts choreography.

I seem to remember this, it was a big deal to have him on board.

Omega Amen wrote:The "floating" wire work in CTHD was a decision made by the film's director, Ang Lee, to be faithful to Chinese martial arts legends and the book the film was based on. So, yes, "fake" when compared to reality, but actually quite "true" to the source of the material.

I can't say that I have any experience with other sources, aside from those martial arts movies that where always shown on Saturday afternoons on TV when I grew up... that and Jackie Chan (who for the most part is tops in my book, but it's a very, very small book ]CTHD actually featured very well known martial arts actors who actually had athleticism and talent, and the martial arts forms were executed very well.

<SNIP>

As for the Matrix (first movie), I had a hard time appreciating any of the fights mainly because it was obvious to me the special effects were serving as crutches for the actors' lack of athelticism and experience in martial arts. [/QUOTE]
Pulling this back a bit more on topic.... Considering the fact that the actors where not from that sort of background, I think they did a good job of doing what they did. I think one of the core ideals of the Matrix movie itself is the suspension of belief itself... a theme that allows them to "leap tall buildings" and whatnot.

However I have to agree with what I think you're saying about special effects making up for real tallent.... some of Jackie Chan's latest work relies much more on wirework than it did before. Granted he's starting to age, and it would be good not to kill him off by working him to death, it's a bit disapointing to see him getting away from the things that made him so much fun to watch, real or not, you believed what he was doing.... and often he was doing it, just not in one long take

Omega Amen wrote:What Matrix did have was "style," which frankly reminds me of the "cool style" anime I have seen. I agree that the Matrix had "style," and thus why it became incredibly popular in our "cool image"-oriented culture. Of course, "style" or "cool" is not going to support a trilogy very well and apparently that is what a lot of people think now.

Sadly you're correct in this... but too, what was done with the Matrix was new at the time... and while what they did when filming that movie has changed how western films are made now (esp. action films), it was no longer new when the following two films hit the theaters. In the end there was just no way for them to live up to what they did originally.... though it didn't stop the others from having some good stuff (someone once said that they could have chopped the two down to a single movie... I think a 3 hr cut version might have worked better... but who knows).

Omega Amen wrote:Yes, I took Chinese martial arts in the past, and I have seen many Hong Kong martial arts films. IMHO, CTHD is one of the best martial arts films since it had great action and a solid plot (a rare sight in Hong Kong martial arts films). I only consider Jet Li's and Yuen Woo Ping's (these names keep popping up) films "Fist of Legend" or "Once Upon a Time in China 2" to possibly have better fight scenes (plots in both are mediocre though).

I'll have to keep an eye out for those... once I'm on top of my bills I might start making use of my Blockbuster Rewards program on my mid-week weekends

L8rs

I don't feel like saying a lot about this topic, nor do I have much to say. So I won't. [This cannot always be assumed.]

The original Matrix was very original, and broke a lot of new ground, and certainly did have what you'd call "style." I'm not very against the second two movies, though I believe I would have preferred just the original, with its great ending. But the fight of Neo vs Three Agents at the beginning of Reloaded is one that I really do like.

I have a great many non-anime friends who love Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. And the coreography on that movie was great. But enough with the tangent...

Its a very original story, but personally I was dissapointed in the last 2.

Hmmm... Cult status?

I'll bet eventually you'll find a group of people that adore the first movie and pretend the second two never existed.

*looks at self* yeah *points at mirror* YOU are the only person who liked all 3 but still understood anything that was going on. (everyone else i know who liked all 3 couldnt follow any of them and just watched for the action)

I'll go with Omega

i really dont know what was so great about the matrix exdept for the fighting. sure the special efects were awsome, and i think it stole the bullet time from Max Payne or viceversa (but that has nothing to do with nything). But i did like the first one. the dojo scene was my fave, but if anyone knows me enoguh they's know that THE LOTR was more originial, and cleaner,

and i didnt really like CTHD Twas kinda Cheasy

Ruroken wrote: and i think it stole the bullet time from Max Payne or viceversa

Max Payne came out much later after the first Matrix. Max Payne is a complete rippoff of Matrix with it's character design and bullet time effects. Max Payne sucked IMO anyway; too repetitive.

[quote="Orange Kit

Volt wrote:I'd hate to tell you this but actualy the Matrix is the fake and Max Payne is the original.

The studio that made max payne is the one that came up with Bullet-Time. Not the matrix. Bullet-time is registered and the Matrix producers paid money to the studio to use thier bullet-time technique.

Just because Matrix was first doesn't means it's the original.

well the matrix team didn't have spies or anything. i would say they are both original annd are really nothing alike in story, although both are in fantasy worlds the way they are is completely different.

Volt wrote:Also the Matrix sequals are about to win my "Volt's Annoying Movie Cliche" awards. For movie with so many twists it hurts the story line.

Have you seen The Game with Michael Douglas? I haven't seen the third matrix, but The Game had more twists than the first 2 matrix movies combined, and it is one of my favorite movies. It's good to have your head messed with every once and a while.

Along those lines, I quite liked MGS2 from beginning to end.

So, I'm going to have to disagree with you on that point.

Volt wrote:I'd hate to tell you this but actualy the Matrix is the fake and Max Payne is the original.

The studio that made max payne is the one that came up with Bullet-Time. Not the matrix. Bullet-time is registered and the Matrix producers paid money to the studio to use thier bullet-time technique.

Just because Matrix was first doesn't means it's the original.

I'd like you to show me where you heard that. Give me a verifiable refference. Max Payne came out in 2001, while Matrix came out in 99. Matrix took a while to make, and they wouldn't have had Max Payne to refference.